Scrolls and metamagic feats

[Queen_of_Hearts]

I want to make sure I've got this right: that when a metamagic feat is applied to a spell, it takes a slot of a higher level and is created as if of that higher level, but it remains a spell of the original level for basing the saving throw determination.

Thus, an empowered fireball takes up a fifth-level spell slot but the saving throw difficulty class is still based upon a third-level spell (otherwise Heighten Spell is just about useless). Creating a scroll of empowered fireball, though, is treated as a fifth-level spell for creation purposes; also a scroll of heightened [spell level 5] and empowered fireball would be the same creation cost [edit] as an empowered fireball because the heightened spell does not advance it past fifth level, which the scroll would be based upon anyway[/edit]?

Lastly, a character with spell immunity targeting the fireball spell would be subjected to a heightened [spell level 5] fireball because the modified fireball exceeds the level 4 spell limit on spell immunity?

Thanks in advance.

 

[the Jester]

Well, an empowered heightened (5th) fireball should be a 7th level spell (heighten to 5th, +2 for empowered). The metamagic level additions are additive, and I don't think you can get around it quite so easily. That would be very cheesy.

The spell resistance question is a good one; don't have an answer since my books are all elsewhere at the moment.

 

[Queen_of_Hearts]

OK, I see the logic in the heightened empowerment. Still wondering about spell resistance.

 

[Queen_of_Hearts]

found it

The PHB states that it woulkd save as third level.

Thanks.

 

[Stalker0]

Yes, heightening the fireball to a 5th level spell would bypass any spell immunity or minor globes of invulnerabily.

As for spell resistance, when the spell is cast you use 1d20 + the caster level of the scroll.

Now the caster level is whatever the caster sets it, but at minimum it must be high enough to support a spell of that level.

FOr a fireball, that's level 5.

For a fireball heightened to 5th spell level, that's level 9.

For an empowered heightened spell (which is 7th spell level) that would be a caster level of 13th.

 

[Pax]

I want to make sure I've got this right: that when a metamagic feat is applied to a spell, it takes a slot of a higher level and is created as if of that higher level, but it remains a spell of the original level for basing the saving throw determination.

Correct so far.

Thus, an empowered fireball takes up a fifth-level spell slot but the saving throw difficulty class is still based upon a third-level spell (otherwise Heighten Spell is just about useless).

Not useless, entirely. IMO, and IMC, Heighten gives +2 DC fr every level increase applied. But as written: only Heighten affects the DC, however, the MEtamagick adjustments for each metamagick are applied cumulatively.

Creating a scroll of empowered fireball, though, is treated as a fifth-level spell for creation purposes; also a scroll of heightened [spell level 5] and empowered fireball would be the same creation cost [edit] as an empowered fireball because the heightened spell does not advance it past fifth level, which the scroll would be based upon anyway[/edit]?

Slightly incorrect. If you Empower and Heighten(+2) a Fireball, the result is a spell that is a 5th level spell (Heighten +2 + Fireball), which then does 150% damage ... and occupies a 7th level slot. So a scroll of "Empowered, +2 Heightened Firenall" would be written as if it were a 7th level spell, for purposes of spell level, minimum caster level, and therefor, cost.

Lastly, a character with spell immunity targeting the fireball spell would be subjected to a heightened [spell level 5] fireball because the modified fireball exceeds the level 4 spell limit on spell immunity?

Thanks in advance.

That last one, I'm not certain of, but I like it in concept, so as a GM, I'd accept the premise on it's face, and give it further thought later.

But a scroll of Empowered Fireball (heightened +2) costs as much as a 7th-level spell. Metamagic level adjustments stack.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Spell Immunity makes the target immune to a spell of 4th level or lower, as if he had unbeatable SR. If the spell in question does not allow for SR, this spell does not work against it. The 4th level or lower is the parameter for the caster's choice of spell. He can choose Fireball, for instance, but not Delayed Blast Fireball. A heightened fireball changes the level of the spell for DC, etc., but it would not bypass Spell Immunity because the target still has unbeatabe SR. Heighten spell does not change that. This spell does not work like the globes of invulnerabiltiy, which would allow a heightened fireball to bypass its protection.

 

[green slime]

I agree with Dr. Zoom. Just thought I'd point that out.