Scrolls up the wahzoo

[ced1106]

Wasn't able to find an answer, but what's to prevent a PC from burning XP to create a Huge Number of scrolls and casting them ad nauseum during combat? Any GMs had this problem with their players?

Thanks,


aka. Washu! ^O^

 

[shilsen]

Nothing, other than the expenditure of time, money and XP.

And as a DM and a player I don't think it's a problem at all.

 

[Mort]

Wasn't able to find an answer, but what's to prevent a PC from burning XP to create a Huge Number of scrolls and casting them ad nauseum during combat? Any GMs had this problem with their players?

Thanks,


aka. Washu! ^O^

Nothing - except time and resources. Say you want to scribe a "huge" number of scrolls. You like the spell fireball and want 10 of these:
- first you need time: minimum 4 days (3,750 base price 1 day per 1,000)
- then you need money (12.5 *3 *10 (you're caster level and you want effective fireballs)) = 3,750 gold
- then you need to sacrifice experience - 938 xp (about 1/45 the xp of a 10th level character).

All for items that may be gone after a few adventures - it's a tradeoff.
Actually if you do this a lot, your much better off taking the initial hit and investing in a wand (50 scrolls of fireball at 10th level take up much more space and cost almost twice as much as one wand).

 

[Scharlata]

Wasn't able to find an answer, but what's to prevent a PC from burning XP to create a Huge Number of scrolls and casting them ad nauseum during combat? Any GMs had this problem with their players?

Hi!

What's the problem?

Ad 1: Who allowed the player to take the relevant feat? Prevention is everything.
Ad 1.1: If the player in question can be argued with, change/retrain the feat.
Ad 1.2: If the player in question can't be argued with, arrange for a "prolongued holiday on Tarterus". And don't allow the feat again or any other item creation feat.

Ad 2: There are some more factors to calculate in:
Ad 2.1: XP, as you mentioned (limited to the border of level loss),
Ad 2.2: Money (limited to the funds a PC can lay hands on),
Ad 2.3: Time (limited as the DM sees fit).

Ad 3: There are some technical factors to concern:
Ad 3.1: Fetching a scroll during combat provokes an AoO,
Ad 3.2: Casting a spell from a scroll provokes an AoO,
Ad 3.3: Scrolls can be burned, sundered, disarmed, stolen, etc.

Ad 4: Miscellaneous:
Ad 4.1: What's the difference of having a spell-slinger casting spells from "within" or from a scroll? He/she/it can't cast more spells in a round than usual.
Ad 4.2: Waste management will seek him out for leaving a trail of litter behind the encounter scene...

Kind regards

 

[mvincent]

what's to prevent a PC from burning XP to create a Huge Number of scrolls and casting them ad nauseum during combat?

Cost (in gp and XP)

Any GMs had this problem with their players?

In any long running game where players keep the same characters, this should be self-correcting. Games (or PC's) that the players know will be short term may encourage this lack of restraint, but I suppose they could always just gain more spells via resting between combats (in a rope-trick or somesuch)... so at least this way none of the other PC's have to wait on the spell-caster to "reload".

 

[Festivus]

There is the question of where / how they are stored and carried.

Scrolls should be kept in a scroll case, you can keep ten scrolls per scroll case. Burn through ten scrolls, you need to fish out that other case with ten more scrolls in it. That might take some time to fetch from your pack or saddlebags, etc.

But yeah, I wouldn't limit them in any way. They spend good money/exp to create them, let them use them.

 

[Dross]

- first you need time: minimum 4 days (3,750 base price 1 day per 1,000)

Actually the time needed is 10 days. There is a minimum of 1 item/day unless it is a potion.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Actually the time needed is 10 days. There is a minimum of 1 item/day unless it is a potion.

I believe you can make one scroll with several spells on it. I can't find anything to support that, however.

But, I still see something I don't agree with:

- first you need time: minimum 4 days (3,750 base price 1 day per 1,000)
- then you need money (12.5 *3 *10 (you're caster level and you want effective fireballs)) = 3,750 gold
- then you need to sacrifice experience - 938 xp (about 1/45 the xp of a 10th level character).

How do you get that? It's 1/25 base cost, or 30 xp per scroll, or 300 xp for 10 of them.

 

[TheGogmagog]

"...a Huge Number of scrolls and casting them ad nauseum during combat?" How many rounds does your combat last?

Aside from the time, money and experience noted above, It also requres combat time and extreme luck if a save is requred. If you are crafting scrolls, you can probably cast spells. So in a combat you would have to chose to spend a standard action to cast from a scroll (which cost time, money and experience) or cast a spell you prepared for the day. The spell from the scroll is at the lowest caster level (unless you invested more in it) so it will do the least amount of damage, have the shortest duration and has the lowest possible saves. Or you can cast the free spell you prepared with scalable damage and saves.

There are a few spells that don't scale much or require saves, like true strike and knock or have a decent base duration like Magic Circle vs alignment or Water Walking. These are also spells that you might not prepare to cast every day. These are excelent canidates for scrolls.

So the largest 'problem' with scrolls is more that the player will almost always have the right spell available to him. The DM crushes thier swamp boat in the middle of nowhere, you don't have to waste a day to cast make whole. Even at that it's a minor advantage.

 

[MarkB]

I believe you can make one scroll with several spells on it. I can't find anything to support that, however.

It's in the FAQ. Since scrolls found in treasure may contain anything up to six spells each, a scroll containing up to six spells is considered to be a single item for item creation purposes - so, for instance, you can create a scroll containing six cure light wounds spells in a single day, so long as you have six cure light wounds spells available to expend.