scry, buff, teleport...initiave?

[Cephid]

Very quickly:
If I've been scrying my enemy then prepare and teleport in with my mates, what happens with initiave?

Is there a surprise round?
(because friends and I were expecting a fight and enemy was camping)

If so, who is involved?

Anything else I should know about?

(I've just taken a level as divine Oracle for my Sorcerer, and its time to go hunting!!)

Also, any good tactics or issues I should know about?

Thanks

 

[DarkJester]

Definitely a surprise round. You and your friends all get a standard action and then initiative would be rolled.

I'd have a talk with your DM before going to far down this route though. What's good for the goose and all...

 

[Drowbane]

roll for initiative!

Surprise round. You and your mates are all in on it... as is any of your enemies who happen to perceive ya.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Hopefully 4E will get rid of this cheese.

 

[Belbarid]

Hopefully 4E will get rid of this cheese.

Why should we depend on the rules to get rid of game problems? And why wait for 4E which, I'm sure, will introduce a whole new nest of irritants and problems.

First of all, Scry is pretty gimped from previous versions, and there are a fair number of ways around it. Anticipate Teleport (I think that's the name) will lay a nasty surprise for anyone *abusing* this sort of tactic.

As a DM, I would be okay with the occasional use of something like this- after all, it's important to allow players to be successful, and sometimes overwhelmingly successful. However, I'd also let the group know that if they start doing that too much, someone might do it to them. Or maybe the next target's a little more careful and has some traps set.

Point is, why look to a ruleset to eliminate every possible problem. Rules can't do that, shouldn't do that, and from WotC's past performance, theirs won't.

 

[Drowbane]

Scry & Fry isn't cheese. It is standard operating procedure (assuming a party who wishes to do so) starting as soon as level 9.

It is an age old tradition

 

[Patlin]

I'd allow a spot check for your enemies to participate in the surprise round, but it would be about DC 25. Maybe 30.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

IMHO, the line "After using this spell, you can’t take any other actions until your next turn" in Dimension Door's text should have been included in the other teleporting spells. It is one of my HR's that answers the OPs question.

However, by RAW there are two ways to look at it:

1> Initiative starts when the PC's are aware of the enemy and they can cast buffing spells {measured in combat rounds} before teleporting in. The surprise round happens at the very start of the initiative set and therefore they do not have one upon arrival to the enemy.

2> Initiative starts after the teleport and the PC's act in the surprise round along with any of the bad guys who make thier Spot checks, however this means any pre-teleport buffing {measured in combat rounds} could not have been cast....

Of course, option #1 doesn't mean the bad guys are all ready to fight instantly, perhaps they need to stand from prone, grab gear..etc. This make the tactic much better against humanoids who *need* gear to fight than, say, Dragons...

YMMV

Oh, and personally I think Scry & Fry is a very silly thing to do against any intelligent and powerful enemy while they are in their lair...
As Belbarid mentions, there are a number of ways to turn the tactic back on the party.

 

[Zurai]

Initiative starts when the PC's are aware of the enemy and they can cast buffing spells {measured in combat rounds} before teleporting in.

<snip>

however this means any pre-teleport buffing {measured in combat rounds} could not have been cast....

Uh, there's nothing in the rules that says you have to be in an encounter to cast a spell which has a duration measured in rounds. Or any other kind of duration, for that matter. You can Shield yourself as soon as you get up in the morning, if you want.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Sure.. but how long does it last?..... or you can you have combat round w/out and initiative count?