Sean K Reynolds on working at Paizo (and other companies)

[Scribe]

Great question about a living wage. No easy answer- not in the United States, and I am sure many other places.

The main issue is the massive geographic differences. There are places in the US where land (and housing) is cheap- beyond cheap. But there may not be much in the way of jobs. Or services. Or transportation if you don't have a vehicle.

On the other hand, there are places where you can have everything you want, and more- including high-paying jobs! But your cost of living will be much higher.

Then there's the whole federalism issue- there are substantial legal differences (including the type of assistance you might get) depending on your locality- cities and states can have very different programs. As one simple example, if you lose your job and are eligible for unemployment, you can get from approximately $230/week (Mississippi) to nearly $850 (Massachusetts)- and some states make everyone eligible, and easily, while other states make it nearly impossible to qualify.

And then- what does it take, for you? If you are a student at Rhode Island School of Design, and your money goes to wine, tuition, wine, rent, wine, art supplies, and more wine ... you're probably okay living on ramen for a few years in a tiny hellhole in Providence that even HP Lovecraft would look at and say, "Oh, no ... that apartment? That's cosmic horror."

But if you're raising three young kids ... maybe the all-ramen, all-the-time doesn't work so well. It's relative.

Then, of course, there's benefits- because the US ties health care to employment pretty strongly. Good benefits matter greatly to a lot of people. How much is taken out of your paycheck for those benefits also matters to a lot of people. Or, for that matter, even being eligible.

It's not an easy answer, other than to say that, for the most part, the consumer desire for "cheaper" has meant that people aren't paid enough.

IMO, YMMV, etc.

I hear you, thats again why I ran to the google machine and asked.

I pay a CRAPTON of taxes.
I live in what was previously an affordable area.
I live on a single stable income.
I am better off than most.

If $72K American in Seattle is too high, but $50K Canadian is 'average' then...I mean its as you say a difficult thing to pin down as it will vary wildly.

So to bring it back, whats the cost in Seattle? Whats 'too much to ask for', and whats 'enough to live on', and what is Paizo paying?

I'm going by Mark's Twitter feed, and if I was in any way looking for a stable, living wage, and looking to set up roots? And I read his tweets?

Literally 0% chance I would apply to work there.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

So to bring it back, whats the cost in Seattle? Whats 'too much to ask for', and whats 'enough to live on', and what is Paizo paying?

I'm going by Mark's Twitter feed, and if I was in any way looking for a stable, living wage, and looking to set up roots? And I read his tweets?

Literally 0% chance I would apply to work there.

So think of it this way- you are familiar with cities (like Vancouver, Toronto, etc.). So Seattle will be similar, in the sense that to live "well" (in a comfortable, middle-class way, or to be a homeowner, or to go out to eat a lot, or to own a car and park it) will require a lot of money, while if you are willing to live in relative squalor and scrimp by, you don't need the same amount of money.

But some quick notes from looking around-
Average rent on a 1BR is $2,435. 2BR is $3,452.
Utilities will run you ~$210/month in an efficiency, figure it's rounded to an even $300 for a regular apartment with space and full appliances. Another $70/month for internet. So just basic housing (rental) looks to be 33,660 a year. (Don't even think about buying a house).

Which is why many people would say that you should look at an income of around 90k/year to rent and live in Seattle if you're going to be "living comfortably" - not living paycheck to paycheck, saving a little, renting a decent 1BR, etc.

The "living wage" is lower- I'm seeing it as $19.57 an hour (1 adult, 0 children).

Source-

Living Wage Calculator - Living Wage Calculation for King County, Washington

livingwage.mit.edu

 

[Scribe]

So think of it this way- you are familiar with cities (like Vancouver, Toronto, etc.). So Seattle will be similar, in the sense that to live "well" (in a comfortable, middle-class way, or to be a homeowner, or to go out to eat a lot, or to own a car and park it) will require a lot of money, while if you are willing to live in relative squalor and scrimp by, you don't need the same amount of money.

But some quick notes from looking around-
Average rent on a 1BR is $2,435. 2BR is $3,452.
Utilities will run you ~$210/month in an efficiency, figure it's rounded to an even $300 for a regular apartment with space and full appliances. Another $70/month for internet. So just basic housing (rental) looks to be 33,660 a year. (Don't even think about buying a house).

Which is why many people would say that you should look at an income of around 90k/year to rent and live in Seattle if you're going to be "living comfortably" - not living paycheck to paycheck, saving a little, renting a decent 1BR, etc.

This is the breakdown I'm looking at.

So, to put it plain.

Can you work, live, own a home, raise a family, working as an educated professional, within the RPG space?

If Wizards pays double (Marks Tweets) than Paizo, I have to assume, that the answer is no, at least not on a single income.

Can you do so while living on your own in a Bachelor or Studio and taking the Bus? Probably, but those days are very very far behind me, and I'm not going back.

 

[Mannahnin]

In Seattle if you're youngish and not VERY well employed you probably have multiple roommates or housemates.

 

[payn]

This is the breakdown I'm looking at.

So, to put it plain.

Can you work, live, own a home, raise a family, working as an educated professional, within the RPG space?

If Wizards pays double (Marks Tweets) than Paizo, I have to assume, that the answer is no, at least not on a single income.

Can you do so while living on your own in a Bachelor or Studio and taking the Bus? Probably, but those days are very very far behind me, and I'm not going back.

Cant escape it in my own home! 25 year old kid moved in across the street with 4 roommates. Its like a used car lot out front. The worst part, not a single party invite

 

[gamerprinter]

Well I've run Gamer Printshop, initially as an actual print shop, where I printed maps for publisher and gamer clients, but I also began to do cartography commissions while running that shop. Then in 2010, I started publishing my own map products at DrivethruRPG, which has led to me publishing Pathfinder and Starfinder content. So I've always run my own companies, and companies that had no or very few, limited basis employees. I have freelancers that work with me, and other publishers I do collaborations with, I even publish for 3 authors besides myself, but none of my own actual employees in my publishing business. So how other publishing companies operate and how they treat their employees is not a concern of mine, as I'd never work for somebody else under any circumstance - my last 40 years of self-employed work experience states that plainly. And since I have no employees, I don't have to worry about employee relations. I feel sorry for the Paizo folk that seemed to have been forced in unionizing, but not a situation I'd experience on either side.

 

[Retreater]

Cant escape it in my own home! 25 year old kid moved in across the street with 4 roommates. Its like a used car lot out front. The worst part, not a single party invite

Have you tried bringing an RPG?

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

This is the breakdown I'm looking at.

So, to put it plain.

Can you work, live, own a home, raise a family, working as an educated professional, within the RPG space?

Yes...ish. Look, there are different factors that go into this. As you point out later, what we are willing to do when we are young and what we can put up with when we're old (NOT KIDS ON OUR LAWNS) is very different.

But there are other factors as well- can you telecommute or do work from home? Are you living in the city, or are you working somewhere else?

I think that a part of it is that people are unprepared for how little TTRPGers make ... as opposed to many other "learned white collar jobs." But that's also because they are considered .... "fun."

If you're writing dry technical manuals, you will be paid more than a TTRPG writer (most likely). Just like if you're a coder for financial transaction software, you're going to be paid more (a lot more) than if you want to code videogames.

More importantly, like a lot of people with college degrees, they realize that their career paths are not going to be that lucrative- but that's not just TTRPG designers. People don't make a lot of money in a LOT of occupations, and increasingly, you need a college degree just to get a job in a lot of low-paying fields.

Yeah- TTRPGs don't pay that well. But they are not unique.

 

[Sacrosanct]

This is the breakdown I'm looking at.

So, to put it plain.

Can you work, live, own a home, raise a family, working as an educated professional, within the RPG space?

If Wizards pays double (Marks Tweets) than Paizo, I have to assume, that the answer is no, at least not on a single income.

Can you do so while living on your own in a Bachelor or Studio and taking the Bus? Probably, but those days are very very far behind me, and I'm not going back.

Even then, probably not. I live in Portland, which is only slightly cheaper than Seattle.

One thing I haven't seen brought up is that apartments won't even rent to you unless your gross wage is 3x the rent. So if the average apt is $2000 a month, you have to show how you're making $6K a month, or $72K a year. I'm not aware of any RPG job that pays that much unless you're an executive of a larger company.

Even a tiny 1 bed apt, unless you're living in the ghetto, is around $1400 a month. so $4200 gross, or around $50K a year?

*for anecdotal context, two months ago my son got his first apartment. 550 sq ft studio, with 30 year old appliances and countertops. Rent is $1350 a month in Hillsboro OR (suburbish of Portland). it's insane out there.

 

[Morrus]

Two companies which employ more than fifty employees is more than zero.

Smaller companies like Mongoose, Monte Cook Games, Cubicle 7, Mophidius and Fria Ligan (and that's certainly not an exhaustive list) which still have full-time staff working 9-5 also exist.

Modiphius is up there with Paizo.