• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

D&D 5E Second Wind: Yes or No?

Should DDN have Second Wind?

  • Yes, as a daily resource.

    Votes: 12 6.7%
  • Yes, as an encounter resource.

    Votes: 73 40.8%
  • Only as an optional module.

    Votes: 59 33.0%
  • No.

    Votes: 35 19.6%

Shadeydm

First Post
If you're keeping healing surges then it seems natural to include second wind. Bloodied I find to be a helpful descriptor to whats happening on the battlefield, whem I'm playing a leader I look around for those red rings on my allies minis and for focused fire its nice to target enemies with little red rings to get them off the board faster.

13th Age actually takes second wind a step further allowing you to "rally" more than once an encounter if you both have recoveries and can make a save.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
I can take it or leave it.

Second Wind is basically "in-combat" healing. The more of it the party has available... the more it gets used, and the longer combats become.

If we are really looking for "shorter" and "less-grindy" combats... Second Wind runs directly counter to that. It's just more HP the monsters have to grind through. Same holds true for Potions of Healing and Cure Wounds spells used within combat. All of them extend combat.
 


Klaus

First Post
I can take it or leave it.

Second Wind is basically "in-combat" healing. The more of it the party has available... the more it gets used, and the longer combats become.

If we are really looking for "shorter" and "less-grindy" combats... Second Wind runs directly counter to that. It's just more HP the monsters have to grind through. Same holds true for Potions of Healing and Cure Wounds spells used within combat. All of them extend combat.

Only if it's an encounter resource. If it is a daily resource (as in SWSE) and the loss of hit points/heroic comeback is measured on a day-long basis, then Second Wind becomes an incentive to push forward through the adventuring day.
 

Ahnehnois

First Post
Are you alright with action points providing defensive effects; healing, mitigation, temporary HPs, defense bonuses, outright avoidance of attacks? Or do you expect them to just be offensive surges?
Damage mitigation and defensive effects, definitely. Temporary hps, probably OK in my book. Healing, not unless the character has a healing ability and is using the AP to duplicate or boost it in some way. Given the mathematical similarity, temp hp is less reality bending; why not just stick with that? I don't expect action points to be solely offensive, that's for sure.

Action points, however, are not a daily or encounter or per-time resource (at least not in any of the implementations I've seen).
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
Only if it's an encounter resource. If it is a daily resource (as in SWSE) and the loss of hit points/heroic comeback is measured on a day-long basis, then Second Wind becomes an incentive to push forward through the adventuring day.

Eh, not really. Not after a PC spends it. Then it becomes a reason to shorten the Adventuring Day because you want to get that resource back. Same issue with spells that replenish after an long rest... anything that uses time to regain abilities makes the PCs want to take that time when they can.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Eh, not really. Not after a PC spends it.
Action points are encounter resources for most intense an purposes already in 4e and house ruled they even work better when they are entirely encounter based, ie you get back one each encounter - easy to say you dont get them for resting - in fact they could be seen as represent "getting in the groove". - You might say resting makes them go away all but one to ease the loss.

Spending them doesn't deplete you til the next long rest so it doesnt encourage a long rest.
 
Last edited:

Balesir

Adventurer
Given the current hp system it makes no sense to have a resource that restores hp. As better mathematicians than me have pointed out countless times, there is little difference between giving the healing ability and giving more hit points, except that the second wind (whatever you call it) is more complicated and introduces resource management. It's bad game design even before you start talking about the plausibility issues.
From a purely mathematical point of view, certainly, but this (a) ignores the dramatic value of a heroic recovery and (b) assumes that the recovery requires no (limited) resources to enact.

It gives them that sense only if they don't realize the mathematical reality (i.e. that this healing is basically just more hit points). For a new player, maybe it has that effect, but it doesn't hold up to any real scrutiny.
It is only "just more hit points" if it requires no limited resources to use. This is wrong on at least one count, ideally (from my point of view) from two.

The first count is that the recovery requires an action in the action economy. Given that you are in a conflict in which both sides act, that makes "actions" a precious resource; second wind takes an action, ergo it is not "just the same as more hit points".

The second count is that, if you have "hit dice" or "healing surges" or whatever nomenclature passes muster under the collective sense of aesthetics, then it costs these "long term hit points" to use second wind, making it extremely unlike "extra hit points" indeed.

Second Wind is basically "in-combat" healing. The more of it the party has available... the more it gets used, and the longer combats become.

If we are really looking for "shorter" and "less-grindy" combats... Second Wind runs directly counter to that. It's just more HP the monsters have to grind through. Same holds true for Potions of Healing and Cure Wounds spells used within combat. All of them extend combat.
As [MENTION=17106]Ahnehnois[/MENTION] has pointed out in his post that I replied to above, if all you are concerned about is number of hit points then starting hps and second wind recovery are indistinguishable. This means that, for long combats, the sum of hit points available is all that matters, so you could simply reduce both initial and recovered hit points until you get to the shortness of combat and degree of randomness you prefer. In other words, if the in-combat healing is part of the design, it is irrelevant to the combat duration, which simply relies on the total number of hit points available. Personally, I prefer more rather than less, up to a certain point, but if you want wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am fights then just halving all hit points (including healing results) should work a treat.

I'd say have the lower numbers as "core" or "basic" or whatever, and I'll just double them as a "module", but that would reduce the granularity available.

Damage mitigation and defensive effects, definitely. Temporary hps, probably OK in my book. Healing, not unless the character has a healing ability and is using the AP to duplicate or boost it in some way. Given the mathematical similarity, temp hp is less reality bending; why not just stick with that?
What on earth is "reality bending" about taking a breather and gaining extended endurance in a fight? Only if hit points are "meat" does that make sense - and hit points as "meat" don't make sense to begin with...
 

am181d

Adventurer
I like the idea of Second Wind, because it does a good job of simulating that moment where the hero (be he Conan, John McClain or Rocky) falls to the ground and then picks himself back up, driven by sheer will power alone.

It also helps reduce the game's dependency on magical healing.

My first instinct was that I'd want it as an Encounter resource, but there are a bunch of weird implications if you allow characters to heal a quarter of their HP any time they're under half (after a short rest).

Unfortunately, my preferred solution to HP and healing is a Wounds/Vitality system (which could include Second Wind as a feature, ala Star Wars), and unfortunately you can't add one of those to an existing system without fundamentally reworking it.
 

Jack99

Adventurer
After playing 4e for 4 years, we recently switched back to 2e. In our 2e campaign, we use HD as per dndnext rules and have for almost 30 five-hour sessions. While 2e is not dndnext, they are close enough to say that with HD, you do not need the healing surge mechanic to relieve the cleric of (some) of the pressure. I have similar experience when playtesting dndnext.
 

Voidrunner's Codex

Remove ads

Top