Secret Doors: Elves vs. Rogues

[tensen]

Yes. the whole 2 minutes standing in a 5 foot sqaure looking for a secret door well tends to irk the rest of the party... especially if they turn around and say, "Nope, nothing to see here." Of course it explains why party rogues end up getting lost of extra treasure... the rest of the party keeps ignoring them when they spend minutes looking for secret doors... or secret compartments in the chest "Hey was that chest half empty when you started looking at it?"


Personally I don't have a problem with the elves having the ability to see secret doors.. But as for having the cosmopolitan ability in search, just because the elf wanted to see the secret doors, I think that is where your DM failed. As a party, I'd point out to the elf that he now has point, and needs to search for the traps. (Pointing out the disadvatnage of being better at searching for things.)

 

[mikebr99]

Except that my party isn't stupid enough to move around an unexplored dungeon with no scout.

But your DM lets you take 20 all the time? How many random encounters do you tend to see... moving at 5ft. every 2 mins.?

Mike

 

[billd91]

I don't see what the problem is in having the elven wizard be good at finding secret doors. Heck, he'd have a good modifier from his intelligence alone. Elves just have a keen eye for detail, accept it and move on. He still can't find traps that have a DC20 or better to find (though he can help out with traps easier than that). I would think a party rogue might find it useful to have that kind of help.
And so the PCs are really good at finding secret doors. So what? Why do you have secret doors anyway if not so that they can found? If you have something you don't want them to find, then don't put it in the adventure.
Hidden things in adventures are meant to be found.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Am I the only one who always hated this power?

GM: "Oh, so you walked THERE? Er... what's your search check again?"

Rogue: "I take 20 on a search for hidden doors. 87."

GM: *sigh* "Yes, there's a door..."

Well, a good DM knows the search mods of his players.
And a good player doesn't abuse player knowledge.

So I don't hate this power, as long as the players on the table aren't confusing D&D with Munchkin d20 (I haven't had that for some time now!)

 

[HeavyG]

The only thing I find odd is that non-rogue elves have super fine senses, so they are able to find secret doors without looking for them, while non-elf rogues have super fine senses, so they are able to find DC20+ traps, but only find secret doors if they look for them.

It's not game breaking or anything, but it doesn't make much sense. :\

 

[Hypersmurf]

Whoosh! Lookadat! We're in House Rules!

-Hyp.
(Moderator)

 

[Lordgrae]

(I am said DM btw.)

The elves auto search ability has never sat well with me. First the fact that the elves have acute senses is also represented by a +2 to Search, spot, and listen.

Said elven wizard, even w/o Cosmo or Vers, maxing Search as a Xclass will still have a decent bonus from high Int and the racial +2. And If you don't like the above two feats, Skill Focus would be another +3 instead. Making the wizard take point or whatever just because he is evolving a racial feature via feats and skill points is meh. (Though the player's reasons were more min-maxish, its with in the rules as written.)

The main benifit I can see to this ability is the oddly placed secret doors, say 3/4th the way down an otherwise ordinary stone hallway. The elven wizard tells the party there is a door there? But the human rogue misses it?

And this elven sixth sense only applies to doors... So a elf would notice a trapdoor, but not a pit trap... At least the similar dwarven ability was material specific.

What we did discuss was giving the rogue class a similiar ability for doors and traps. As Moondog noted. Would just make sense that he would develop a keener eye as he gained levels.

The rogue already gets a few abilities based off forsight and sixth senses (Trapsense, Uncanny Dodge, and Evasion). It wouldn't be far fetched. Mechanically balanced is the question. Perhaps as a "special ability" or feat?

 

[Dog Moon]

Versatile?

Originally posted by KaeYoss
Verasatile lets's you make two cross-class skills class skills.

I've never heard of this feat/ability. Anyone know where it is?

 

[sdt]

Isn't the Dwarven ability Stonecunning better? You can detect secret doors and traps as a thief, as long as its in stonework and within 10 feet.

 

[Bryin]

Have the rogue be infront of the wizard with an invisible spell on or just in front of the elf. that way rogue can sense traps and the elf can find hidin doors. The rogue can disarm the trap and the wizard can send a spell in the room to flush out mosters for the parties main fighter (if its just the elf and rogue, send a fireball in there to kill or badly injure the monsters. exp either way)