Sensing the presence of magic - isn't the mechanic backward?

[Regicide]

Those above said it as well, but I'll reiterate it in a way that I like (in case you're still unsure, or don't agree). From a game mechanics rule, it's that way because that's the way that all other similar mechanics work. The higher your level, the harder it is to spot or track or know about or whatever. Skill checks scale like that. However, so do your 1/2 level bonuses so basically as long as what you're doing is the same level as you, the difficulty doesn't change.

Does that mean an incredibly skilled athlete will appear to be the biggest clutz ever unless you're high enough level to tell that his tripping, eye pokes and self-inflicted wounds are really the signs of immense skill? Likewise someone with a negative dex mod while drunk with no athletics skill will be the most graceful and skillful person around and be first pick for teams?

No, it's backwards. It's 4E, don't try to make sense of it because there isn't any, just follow the rules.

 

[IanB]

Off topic, but at first glance the first 3 posts looked like someone having a conversation with himself. I only just now realized there are two Morts...

 

[hamishspence]

subtle

Subtle can be good. But its not actually much help for items when 5 minutes examining will reveal that the ordinary looking sword is actually +6 Vorpal.

Still, its a new way of doing things.

 

[lukelightning]

For magical zones, etc. they tend to be warding/protective effects, so if you're making a powerful magical trap, logically you'd want the magic to be hard to detect. Though I did always like the magical glyph which has the property of being magical... that's all it does: appear magical and powerful. Great for making players try to figure it out.

Off topic, but at first glance the first 3 posts looked like someone having a conversation with himself. I only just now realized there are two Morts...

One regular Mort, and then his counterpart from the Q continuum?

 

[Terwox]

Heck, I think I'll houserule it myself for my games.

I like powerful magic items punishing you for daring to inspect them magically.

I remember my players enjoying it when their monstrous kobold characters took an item they had found to a kobold wizard to identify, and his eyes burned out of his head when he tried to identify it. Good times. They resolved the issue eventually, but it made a nice comical sideplot, with an "ooo" value attached to the item as well.

 

[Insight]

I'd be in favor of two separate magic detection / identification skill checks. The detection skill check would scale inversely with identification.

For example, detecting a magical effect in existence might be a base DC 30 - the item or effect's level. Thus, a powerful effect would be easier to detect than a weak one.

Identification can work as RAW.

This solves the logic problem pretty easily and would be simple to implement. If you wanted a system where more powerful magic 'hides' or is somehow concealed from lower level detectors, you could raise the base DC per tier (base DC 30 for Heroic, base DC 35 for Paragon, and base DC 40 for Epic).

EDIT: actually 25 / 30 / 35 might work better in terms of the average character actually making a skill check once in a while, or maybe even 20 / 25 / 30.

EDIT AGAIN: What about a passive Arcana check to detect ambient magical effects? It would only be for those characters trained in Arcana.

 

[JDillard]

I'd be in favor of two separate magic detection / identification skill checks. The detection skill check would scale inversely with identification.

For example, detecting a magical effect in existence might be a base DC 30 - the item or effect's level. Thus, a powerful effect would be easier to detect than a weak one.

Identification can work as RAW.

This solves the logic problem pretty easily and would be simple to implement. If you wanted a system where more powerful magic 'hides' or is somehow concealed from lower level detectors, you could raise the base DC per tier (base DC 30 for Heroic, base DC 35 for Paragon, and base DC 40 for Epic).

EDIT: actually 25 / 30 / 35 might work better in terms of the average character actually making a skill check once in a while, or maybe even 20 / 25 / 30.

Here's my problem with that. A first level character finds a second level magic item and has... almost no chance of knowing that it is? You're really screwing your low level pc's out of potential magic stuff that way, simply because the difficulty on the detection is set so high for weak stuff.

 

[Insight]

Here's my problem with that. A first level character finds a second level magic item and has... almost no chance of knowing that it is? You're really screwing your low level pc's out of potential magic stuff that way, simply because the difficulty on the detection is set so high for weak stuff.

You could tweak the numbers. That's not really the point. What if the base DC was 15? Surely most 1st level Wizards could make a 14 the majority of the time. I'm really talking about the concept of an inverse scale more than the actual concrete base DCs.

 

[lukelightning]

I like powerful magic items punishing you for daring to inspect them magically.

Sounds more like an artifact sort of thing than random powerful magic item thing. A +5 sword? Nah, it's not gonna melt your brain. A +5 sword that happens to also be the Lost Blade of Kord? Handle With Caution.

 

[DracoSuave]

I'd be in favor of two separate magic detection / identification skill checks. The detection skill check would scale inversely with identification.

For example, detecting a magical effect in existence might be a base DC 30 - the item or effect's level. Thus, a powerful effect would be easier to detect than a weak one.

Identification can work as RAW.

The problem with that is that, your base DC is impossible for level 1 characters to make -at all-. And in the inverse, all level 30 stuff, with DC 0, can be detected by a guy, sleeping in his bed, blindfolded, ears plugged.

No.

This solves the logic problem pretty easily and would be simple to implement. If you wanted a system where more powerful magic 'hides' or is somehow concealed from lower level detectors, you could raise the base DC per tier (base DC 30 for Heroic, base DC 35 for Paragon, and base DC 40 for Epic).

Even base 40 for epic tier ends up a -maximum- DC of 20. All characters who are trained in Arcana at level 20 can make that DC with 25% chance.

Your system breaks down when you understand at low levels, your rolls are -literally- impossible to make, and at high levels, your rolls are -literally- impossible to fail.

In other words.... if you have a system where you don't bother rolling, why have a system at all?[/quote]