D&D 5E Separating Knowledge from Skill (+)

[Lyxen]

I am glad someone put swimming as a Con skill. Being able to swim is not hard, swimming is tough over any diatance.

Huh, no. If you don't know how to swim, you sink. Just because most people can learn to swim does not make it innate, most sailors did not learn it on purpose until the late nineteenth century, so that they would drown quickly. And the other thing is that swimming is incredibly hard with any sort of burden, including clothes and in particular shoes. If you want to be realistic, that's way more important than constitution and distance. Like any other skill, there is what you know, and applying to the right stat, it might be Con for swimming long, but when do adventurers swim for a long time ? It might be strength to swim quickly, or dex to swim quietly, probably more applicable to adventurers...

 

[Rogerd1]

Huh, no. If you don't know how to swim, you sink.

You can tread water without being able to swim, or lay back.

Just because most people can learn to swim does not make it innate

On the grounds I never mentioned innate, don't put words that are not there.

And the other thing is that swimming is incredibly hard with any sort of burden, including clothes and in particular shoes.

If you want to be realistic, once you start swimming with shoes etc on, it isn't strength that keeps you going, it is endurance, and technique. You don't need to swim front crawl all the time when breastroke will do just fine.

Or to quote an athlete, "don't stop when you're tired, stop when you're done!"

but when do adventurers swim for a long time ? It might be strength to swim quickly, or dex to swim quietly, probably more applicable to adventurers...

Depends on the situation.
You could be playing a Michael Weston spy type dropped a mile out to sea having no choice but to swim ashore. Or a Navy Seal, or SBS, swimming to an objective.

Swimming quietly, that is all about technique though.

 

[Lyxen]

You can tread water without being able to swim, or lay back.

Yeah, right, which is why no-one ever drowns...

On the grounds I never mentioned innate, don't put words that are not there.

Well, "Being able to swim is not hard" and "You can tread water without being able to swim, or lay back". Makes it look like basically anyone should be able not to sink at least, and even move around...

If you want to be realistic, once you start swimming with shoes etc on, it isn't strength that keeps you going, it is endurance, and technique. You don't need to swim front crawl all the time when breastroke will do just fine.

Yeah, sure, and my daughter did not almost drown in a swimming pool where she could actually stand. And the same for my nephew, but he was way smaller.

There are drowning due to lack of endurance, but it's usually people being caught in a rip and fighting it.

Depends on the situation.
You could be playing a Michael Weston spy type dropped a mile out to sea having no choice but to swim ashore. Or a Navy Seal, or SBS, swimming to an objective.

You could. Has that ever happened in my games ? No. Ever. Plenty of swimming though, but never endurance.

Swimming quietly, that is all about technique though.

And swimming quickly is not ? Swimming for a long time either ?

 

[DND_Reborn]

Moving quietly, in any fashion, is stealth, regardless of the form of movement, IMO.

Now, swimming in rough waters while trying to be quite, would require a STR (swim) check and arguably a STR (stealth) (or DEX?) check. Depending on the noise made by the rough waters, the STR (stealth) check might be with advantage.

Swimming a long distance could easily become a CON (swim) at some point. But swimming quickly wouldn't require a check, as you would simply be taking the Dash action to double your speed. Unfortunately, moving faster isn't in the mechanics of movement unless you have a feature like Cunning Action to allow you another Dash.

Swimming while encumbered would be a STR (swim) check, because although the CON part comes up in doing it for a length of time, it is STR that determines if you can stay afloat or not IMO.

That is my take, anyway.

 

[Rogerd1]

Yeah, right, which is why no-one ever drowns...

Well, "Being able to swim is not hard" and "You can tread water without being able to swim, or lay back". Makes it look like basically anyone should be able not to sink at least, and even move around...

Yeah, sure, and my daughter did not almost drown in a swimming pool where she could actually stand. And the same for my nephew, but he was way smaller.

You are being quite ignorant here.
The reason they nearly drown is usually panic. This type of reaction is not uncommon, had it myself.
If they stop to control that, to realise they can stand up.....

And swimming quickly is not ? Swimming for a long time either ?

Make your mind up!
What you said was-

It might be strength to swim quickly, or dex to swim quietly, probably more applicable to adventurers...

Swimming quickly is partially strength, mostly technique. Then you have to keep it going, and that is endurance.
Most of us can swim front crawl; but doing it technically correct, very few. Their is a technique to front crawl, and it takes a long time to get it right, lobbing your arms over your head, ain't it - period.

Swimming for a long time either ?.

No, that is Con, it is endurance. There is a reason swimming is included in things like triathlons, and other events like this.
Swimming for a distance is tough, and so is swimming fast.

 

[Lyxen]

The reason they nearly drown is usually panic. This type of reaction is not uncommon, had it myself.
If they stop to control that, to realise they can stand up.....

Yeah, right, once more, drowning never happens, for sure, everyone can stay afloat or even move around...

Swimming quickly is partially strength, mostly technique.

Which is exactly what I said, you should need some proficiency to swim anyway, after that, to swim quickly, maybe more profiency and strength. Endurance does not come into it until quite a bit later.

Then you have to keep it going

No, why ? Once more, I've never seen adventurers needing to swim for even a medium distance. They are not stupid, they find other ways.

Most of us can swim front crawl; but doing it technically correct, very few. Their is a technique to front crawl, and it takes a long time to get it right, lobbing your arms over your head, ain't it - period.

So, again, what does endurance have to do with it ? It never, ever became an issue in all the adventures. Whereas speed and quiet came up a number of time.

 

[Rogerd1]

Yeah, right, once more, drowning never happens, for sure, everyone can stay afloat or even move around...

Never said drowning doesn't happen. The more you answer the more you show you are utterly ignorant you are.

Which is exactly what I said, you should need some proficiency to swim anyway, after that, to swim quickly, maybe more profiency and strength. Endurance does not come into it until quite a bit later.

You might be able to swim quickly for a very short distance, but after that it is all endurance, backed by correct technique.

So, again, what does endurance have to do with it ?

If you swim with the incorrect technique, it makes swimming harder.
But if you are doing it over a distance, this is endurance.
This is not a difficult concept.

 

[Lyxen]

Never said drowning doesn't happen. The more you answer the more you show you are utterly ignorant you are.

Reported.

You might be able to swim quickly for a very short distance, but after that it is all endurance, backed by correct technique.

And, again, in all adventuring that I've seen, it does not matter, adventurers swim short distances where endurance should not ever matter. Are you even reading this, since you are always answering besides the point ?

 

[Seramus]

What about a Con skill based on alertness? Not sure how it would work and I am just spitballing here, but while on guard being able to stay focused and alert in order to perceive dangers. Not sure. Con skills are hard.

Can confirm. Trying to stay awake and alert for long periods of time is surprisingly brutal. Especially when fatigue sets in and the world starts spinning, you can barely keep your head up, your arms and legs get shaky, and you still have 4 more hours to go!

 

[Rogerd1]

Reported.

And, again, in all adventuring that I've seen, it does not matter, adventurers swim short distances where endurance should not ever matter. Are you even reading this, since you are always answering besides the point ?

1. Don't be ignorant then, easy peasy.
2. It seems you are having difficulty reading. I am answering your questions, try again