Separating racial and cultural traits [PEACH]

[shdwrnr]

Someone in one of the 4e threads made a comment saying that they wanted to see racial and cultural traits separated. The idea struck me as pretty cool. After all, if a human is raised among elves from birth, why wouldn't he become proficient with the longbow, shortbow, longsword and rapier like all of his elf friends? If a dwarf was raised among halflings from birth, why would he understand stonework and not the principles of his climbing, jumping, swimming, stone slinging and throwing adoptive family?

First, races are stripped of their cultural traits:
[sblock=Example Races]
DWARVES
• +2 Constitution, –2 Charisma.
• Medium: As Medium creatures, dwarves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Dwarf base land speed is 20 feet. However, dwarves can move at this speed even when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load (unlike other creatures, whose speed is reduced in such situations).
• Darkvision: Dwarves can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and dwarves can function just fine with no light at all.
• Stability: A dwarf gains a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped when standing on the ground (but not when climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground).
• +2 racial bonus on saving throws against poison.
• +2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like effects.

ELVES
• +2 Dexterity, –2 Constitution.
• Medium: As Medium creatures, elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Elf base land speed is 30 feet.
• Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.
• Low-Light Vision: An elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
• +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. An elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it.
[/sblock]

Next we add a mechanic called "cultures". During character creation, the player selects any two from the following list.
[sblock=Cultural Traits]
ARCANE
• +2 cultural bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like effects.
• +2 cultural bonus on Knowledge (acrana) and Spellcraft checks.
• +2 cultural bonus on Alchemy and Use Magic Device checks.
• Favored Class: Wizard.

EXPANSIONIST
• +2 cultural bonus on Knowledge (geography).
• +2 cultural bonus on Diplomacy and Gather Information checks.
• Favored Class: Any.

INVENTIVE
• +2 cultural bonus on any two Knowledge skills chosen at 1st level.
• +2 cultural bonus on any two Craft skills chosen at 1st level.
• Favored Class: Bard.

RELIGIOUS
• +2 cultural bonus on Knowledge (religion).
• +2 cultural bonus Will saves to avoid compulsion spells and effects.
• Favored Class: Cleric.

ATHLETIC
• +2 cultural bonus on Climb, Jump, and Swim checks.
• +1 cultural bonus on attack rolls with thrown weapons.
• Favored Class: Barbarian.

MARTIAL
• +1 cultural bonus on attack rolls against two types of creature or a single type of weapon chosen at 1st level.
• Proficiency with two separate martial weapons chosen at 1st level.
• Favored Class: Fighter.

DEFENSIVE
• +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against monsters of one type of creature chosen at 1st level. Any time a creature loses its Dexterity bonus (if any) to Armor Class, such as when it’s caught flat-footed, it loses its dodge bonus, too.
• Proficiency with two separate martial weapons chosen at 1st level.
• Favored Class: Fighter.

INDUSTRIAL
• Cunning: Choose a type of material, profession, or craft. You gain a +2 cultural bonus on Search and Spot checks to notice anything unusual relating to your chosen specialization. When simply passing within 10 feet of an unusual example of your chosen specialty you can make a Search check as though you were actively searching.
• +2 cultural bonus on Appraise checks that are related to the chosen specialization.
• +2 cultural bonus on Craft checks that are related to the chosen specialization.
• Favored Class: Fighter.

MERCANTILE
• +2 cultural bonus on Appraise checks.
• +2 cultural bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive checks.
• Favored Class: Rogue.

SEAFARING
• +2 cultural bonus on Balance, Profession (sailor) and Use Rope checks.
• +2 cultural bonus on Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (Nature), and Survival checks.
• Favored Class: Rogue.

SAVAGE
• +2 cultural bonus on Knowledge (Nature), and Survival checks.
• +2 cultural bonus on Hide, Listen, Move Silently, and Spot checks.
• Favored Class: Ranger.
[/sblock]

Typed bonuses don't stack of course, and yes, some of these are more powerful than others. This mechanic would also slightly increase the power of some races while diminishing others, though I don't feel this has a significant effect on game balance. This is also a very generic version of this mechanic. Given a fleshed out campaign setting one could apply this mechanic to each region or country in their game for a much better effect. That being said, I think these traits represent a good base line and can easily be used for any character to support a specific background.

I felt automatic and bonus languages should be a cultural thing too, though without campaign specific information, this can't really be applied.

So what do y'all think?

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Interesting take,.. and I think its a good start, altho a bit generic.

I worked a setting specific HR here perhaps we can combine the ideas

 

[Slapzilla]

I've been toying with the idea of race and culture for a bit too. My players weren't interested so I dropped it from my active 'to-do' list.
My only difficulty came from deciding what was racial and what was cultural. Does a gnome's Speak With Animals come from being fostered as a baby with one or from actually being a gnome fostered as a baby with one? It makes sense that a half orc raised as an elven child would learn the elven weapon proficiencies or that a human raised in a dwarven clan would get stonecunning. Or would they? Would a half-orc have the same elven pride that spurs the teaching of those weapons? I think probably not, but it wouldn't preclude their teaching. A human cannot see in the dark and how important is that to dwarven culture? Could a human develop darkvision or would this human's stonecunning only work when underground and lit somehow? I think not. A halfling too, may not learn stonecunning. The human second feat at first level is certainly racial, but are the skill bonuses?
Again my players weren't interested so I didn't finish things up as I would have liked. Where is the line, do you think, for racial and cultural? How do you make that judgement?

I also like the idea of regional differences, but again my players were stiffs about it. I tried to implement a background mechanic by having them choose an NPC class skill list to be added to their class list. I was strict about them choosing Aristocrat and I limited Expert to 4 skills (otherwise they'd all pick it) and it lent another background angle to otherwise flat 1st level characters.

 

[shdwrnr]

Interesting take,.. and I think its a good start, altho a bit generic.

I left it all generic by design. If you use a published campaign setting or flesh one out yourself, of course you can make your cultural aspects more narrow since you've established what each culture is, in essence.

I also left it generic to allow its use on a smaller scale. Imagine you're campaign is set in a large metropolis like, say, Sharn, the Free City of Greyhawk, or Waterdeep? This generic system could let you differentiate between the halfling who was born poor and grew up working in the docks district (Martial Seafaring Halfing) and the human born rich and educated in a prestigeous magical institute (Inventive Arcane Human).

As for Slapzilla's comments, I'd have to disagree. From a strictly biological standpoint, things like darkvision and inate magical ability aren't things that you could simply train yourself to do. Also, a person's mental outlook is the sum of his experiences. The half-orc raised from birth among elves would be very elf-like in personality as well as training. Even if that half-orc wanted to embrace his orc identity, he's still limited by his experiences and would probably come off as an inane parody of facts by orc culture (for an example, look at any comedy featuring "wiggers")

That being said, I now have a very funny mental picture of a wannabe-barbarian elf raised half-orc. "Why you always gotta be hatin' on my green brothers, yo?"

 

[Slapzilla]

As for Slapzilla's comments, I'd have to disagree. From a strictly biological standpoint, things like darkvision and inate magical ability aren't things that you could simply train yourself to do. Also, a person's mental outlook is the sum of his experiences. The half-orc raised from birth among elves would be very elf-like in personality as well as training. Even if that half-orc wanted to embrace his orc identity, he's still limited by his experiences and would probably come off as an inane parody of facts by orc culture (for an example, look at any comedy featuring "wiggers")

That being said, I now have a very funny mental picture of a wannabe-barbarian elf raised half-orc. "Why you always gotta be hatin' on my green brothers, yo?"

Oh, I agree that a human can't 'learn' darkvision. But I began to wonder then how much darkvision contributed to the dwarven cultural identity. Then I wondered if another race without darkvision could be culturally 'dwarven'. Mental outlook could be very dwarf positive and all but if you need darkvision to gain access to, say, stonecunning... well, it just turned out to be more trouble than my players were to make it worth, so I dropped the headache. I think you're right about the 'orlf' being elf-like in personality and training and that is an easy line to see. Others are hard. Halfling luck? Gnomish Craft: Alchemy? Probably racial. A half-elf's +2 to Diplomacy and Gather Info...would a Halfling raised as a half-elf get it too? How do you define 'raised as a half elf'? Would a Dwarf raised as a Gnome get +1 to the D.C. for all saves verses Illusions cast by Gnomes? It's described as an 'innate familiarity', so I think yes. Favored Class, Languages and Weapon familiarities are certainly cultural. I'd be interested to know how you'd divide the rest.

 

[Phlebas]

Pratchett has a human raised by dwarves (Captain Carrot) who can speak dwarvish, knows all about dwarvish culture but is 6' tall and can walk bent over in a 'L' shape due to being brought up in low ceilinged mines......

IMC i gave cultural bonuses to every region - normally a regional skill (treat as class skill), and a feat that could be taken instead of the standard birthright list (house rule). Non-humans had the option of taking either the racial culture, or picking a region.

I quite like the generic traits though, i just wonder about how many bonuses your giving to a human given they are supposed to get the +1/level skill point to comensate them for the lack of racial bonuses?