Serenity Roleplaying Game

[molonel]

Thing is, in the episode, it's not hard for Mal at all. He doesn't even break his stride. I know it's not necessarily easy to replicate that in a typical RPG, but I think a system less focused on simulating Mal's gun skill and more on Mal's traits as a hero and his role in the overall story might come a little closer. At least, it suits my take on the show better.

And the thing is, despite some of the misguided defense of the Serenity RPG in this thread, nobody is saying, "It does this or that badly COMPARED TO D20."

In d20, unless the guy was a 1st level mook, the scene would have erupted into gunfire with a prolonged gun battle while they whittled away his hit points, or until someone scored a successful crit.

 

[vrykyl]

Thing is, in the episode, it's not hard for Mal at all. He doesn't even break his stride. I know it's not necessarily easy to replicate that in a typical RPG, but I think a system less focused on simulating Mal's gun skill and more on Mal's traits as a hero and his role in the overall story might come a little closer. At least, it suits my take on the show better.

Yeah, that was a very cool and important character moment in the pilot episode -- and it's also writer's fiat. It may not have "looked" hard but that was an impressive shot: In game terms a great roll and probably with a handful of plot points for that very critical moment. I've had lots of similar moments in running the Serenity RPG -- or for just about any RPG for that matter.

There are game systems that let you re-create that sense of storytelling where you can automatically succeed at important moments, but they are even more abstract than usual. I wanted some rules, some traditional RPG game structure, and the chance to roll some dice to either succeed or fail.

As I've said, I get that many of you are going to do your own thing or convert the Serenity RPG to your system of choice. And you've got my blessing, as I've done the same thing many times. So, enjoy!

** Jamie

 

[molonel]

As I've said, I get that many of you are going to do your own thing or convert the Serenity RPG to your system of choice. And you've got my blessing, as I've done the same thing many times. So, enjoy!

I just wanted to say that you've got a cool attitude, and that more than anything else will probably encourage me to take a look at the Serenity RPG and the Battlestar Galactica RPG (when it comes out).

Thank you.

 

[Pbartender]

But it almost sounds like you're encouraging people to avoid the skill system for "routine" tasks because it could TPK the group...

In all honesty, many, many RPGs do that, including D20...

For example:

Typical piloting tasks don't require checks. Checks are required during combat, for special maneuvers, or in other extreme circumstances, or when the pilot wants to attempt something outside the normal parameters of the vehicle. When flying, the character can attempt simple maneuvers and stunts (actions in which the pilot attempts to do something complex very quickly or in a limited space).

Routine tasks, such as ordinary driving, don't require a skill check. Make a check only when some unusual circumstance exists (such as inclement weather or an icy surface), or when the character is driving during a dramatic situation (the character is being chased or attacked, for example, or is trying to reach a destination in a limited amount of time).

Most normal computer operations don't require a Computer Use check (though a character might have to make a Research check; see the Research skill description). However, searching an unfamiliar network for a particular file, writing computer programs, altering existing programs to perform differently (better or worse), and breaking through computer security are all relatively difficult and require skill checks.

Setting a simple explosive to blow up at a certain spot doesn't require a check, but connecting and setting a detonator does. Also, placing an explosive for maximum effect against a structure calls for a check, as does disarming an explosive device.

Typical riding actions don't require checks. A character can saddle, mount, ride, and dismount without a problem. Mounting or dismounting an animal is a move action. Some tasks, such as those undertaken in combat or other extreme circumstances, require checks. In addition, attempting trick riding or asking the animal to perform an unusual technique also requires a check.

 

[molonel]

In all honesty, many, many RPGs do that, including D20...

For example ....

Did I not JUST SAY ....

And the thing is, despite some of the misguided defense of the Serenity RPG in this thread, nobody is saying, "It does this or that badly COMPARED TO D20."

Cripes. How many times do I have to repeat myself?

 

[Pbartender]

Did I not JUST SAY ....

Cripes. How many times do I have to repeat myself?

Oh, no... That's not what I meant at all...

I was only using the D20 Modern SRD as an easily accessable on-line example of another very popular RPG that unequivocally states in the rules, "You are not required to roll skill checks for simple, mundane tasks." That's all.

 

[molonel]

I was only using the D20 Modern SRD as an easily accessable on-line example of another very popular RPG that unequivocally states in the rules, "You are not required to roll skill checks for simple, mundane tasks." That's all.

That's not what people are saying, though. They are saying that IF you use the skill system for basic, mundane tasks you can very easily get your party in very hot water. Therefore, it is best to avoid using the skill system under those circumstances.

Since I'm RUNNING two separate d20 Modern games right now, I can say with complete confidence that the skill system is robust enough to handle basic tasks. You can choose NOT to use the skill system for landing a helicopter, for example, but if you do use it, and you're a skilled pilot, you are not going to crash nor be in any danger of crashing.

There are other problems with the d20 skill system in general, some of which I've already mentioned, but I would never avoid using it for basic tasks simply because it might kill my group.

These are two different issues.

 

[Belen]

When we first started playtesting, most of our review groups comments were: "Use Savage Worlds/GURPS/Cinematic Unisystem/d20 Modern/etc." Now, I like own all of those rule sets and have played with them all, but I wanted to do something a bit different. Not necessarily innovative, because I've never claimed to have come up with any new or revolutionary game design concepts. Instead, I took some tried-and-true ideas and put them together in a game that could be learned quickly and played intuitively. While there are some real cutting-edge game designs out there, especially in the Indie game design community, most of them are useless in trying to design something destined for the mass-market.

I am not sure if you meant it this way, but you are basically saying that the playtest feedback said that the game would be better served by a different system and you ignored it in favor of a system that better emulates your own GM style.

As I said before, Firefly is better modeled by True20 or Savage Worlds. From my gameday experience, no one uses the Serenity rules to run a Firefly game. They may use the fluff, but they all use a different system.

This may be cool with you, but nothing in your comments here would make me want to look at your rules again. Hell, I am not a rules lover either. I prefer games with fewer rules, but the Cortex system is nothing something I would ever want to use again nor ask anyone else to learn.

 

[Pbartender]

That's not what people are saying, though. They are saying that IF you use the skill system for basic, mundane tasks you can very easily get your party in very hot water. Therefore, it is best to avoid using the skill system under those circumstances.

Since I'm RUNNING two separate d20 Modern games right now, I can say with complete confidence that the skill system is robust enough to handle basic tasks. You can choose NOT to use the skill system for landing a helicopter, for example, but if you do use it, and you're a skilled pilot, you are not going to crash nor be in any danger of crashing.

I'd disagree. If you're a skilled pilot, you shouldn't need to be making those checks, and the rules themselves tell you not to.

Look at it this way... Using D20 skills you've got three possible outcomes for any skill-based scenario.

1. The DC is greater than the skill bonus + 20. There is no possible chance of success. The player simply cannot roll high enough for the character to succeed.

2. The DC is between skill bonus + 1 and Skill bonus +20. There is a varying degree of success from 1-in-20 to succeed to 1-in-20 to fail. Regardless, there is a chance to fail, and sometimes fail catastrophically.

3. The DC is equal to or less than the skill bonus. There is no possible chance of failure, since even if the player rolls a natural 1, he still succeeds. This can happen because either the character is exceptionally skillful, or the task is exceptionally easy.

That last case is what we're talking about. If the DC is that easy, then there's no reason to even roll the dice... "I park the car," the player says, and you reply, "Fine, you're parked."

Essentally, the problem I had in the demo game I played in was that the DM was taking actions that should have been relegated to category 3, and moved them up to category 2. The Serenity equivalent of parking a car was elevated to a life or death situation. Imagine playing a 1st level D20 Modern character with 4 ranks in Pilot who had to make a DC 15 skill check every time you wanted to land an airplane... That's what this felt like.

If you make that check into, say, a DC 5 check then practically everybody who's a "skilled pilot" (1st level, 4 ranks and 10 Dex, or 1 rank and 16 Dex) can make that check without rolling the dice, and there's no point in even using the skill system for the situation in the first place.

Do you see what I mean? In these sorts of circumstances, if you use any skill system the way it is meant to be used, you end up with ridiculous results, since you end up with a reasonable chance for failing some routine task. And if you make the task easy enough that any skill character can accomplish it, then there's no point in asking the skilled character to make the check in the first place.

 

[Cam Banks]

That's not what people are saying, though. They are saying that IF you use the skill system for basic, mundane tasks you can very easily get your party in very hot water. Therefore, it is best to avoid using the skill system under those circumstances.

It isn't as bad as that, no. Generally, if you have even basic proficiency in a skill and are only average in the attribute that's being used in conjunction with that skill, you're almost always going to succeed at mundane, routine tasks. Because rolling a 1 on all of your dice indicates a botch, the assumption on the part of some people is that if you do fail an easy task like landing a ship on an open field on a clear day, it's more than likely going to be a botch and thus catastrophic. As Jamie says, however, there's no reason to punish the players in that sense, even if you do call for a skill roll.

So, you'd save yourself the bother and just tell the player he succeeds. There's still every reason to call for an easy skill check in other circumstances, because some situations may hinge more on success or failure than others as the story dictates.

Cheers,
Cam