Seriously considering dropping the hobby

[molonel]

Rolling dice and drawing dungeons has always been a great deal of fun.

Amen. So is the time you spend with friends while doing so.

The game has changed. The people that play the game have changed.

Mmmmm, I don't know about that, so much. More on that in a moment.

It seems to be acceptable practice (or at least expected) to be uncivil to other gamers with whom you do not agree. Uncouth gamers really disturb me- I've worked with democrats, republicans, independents, muslims, christians, pagans, jews, and atheists that can get along with each other on the job (and even develop genuine friendships) even though they can't agree on anything. I've had the impression that gaming is far less important to most people than politics and religion, so why are gamers being so divisive nowadays?

I've gamed with literally hundreds of players in gaming groups in several states, now. Cons, home games, the works. And I really think this is a local issue for you, because although I've certainly encountered obnoxious gamers, this has NOT been my experience at all.

Am I being unreasonable for basing my games on classical mythology and literature instead of video games and anime? Are there any other gamers out there who run games inspired by the Iliad and Conan: the Barbarian instead of Final Fantasy and 300?

No, you're not being unreasonable. Conan OGL is dedicated to recreating the world of Robert E. Howard's stories, and is going into yet another edition. I do think that there are a range of gaming styles that encompass a broad range of gaming experiences. Some may not be for you, but you are certainly entitled to your preferences.

I do find your coupling of 300 with Final Fantasy curious, though.

Should I just give up the game for good? Or is there hope of finding players that want to make PHB characters and loot a dungeon every once in a while?

I don't think you should give up the hobby unless you find something that is more fun and enjoyable to do. I know there are such gamers as you mention. Some of them run 3rd Edition games. Some of them run earlier editions of the game. Some run Castles & Crusades. The point is simply to find the game and the group of gamers that suits your style.

A while back, I got burned out on D&D. No, not 3rd Edition D&D. ANY edition of D&D. I didn't want to play 1st, or 2nd, or OD&D, or Moldvay D&D, or Mentzer D&D, or Holmes D&D, or whatever crack-out-my-butt subdivision anyone wants to make. I didn't want to play Castles & Crusades.

So I threw together a mishmash of d20 Modern, the X-Files, Call of Cthulu, Delta Green and a host of other sources, and ran my own game. I'm also playing White Wolf's Exalted game.

Sometimes, you just get burned out, man.

The other problem I've found is that RPGs just aren't worth the work anymore. I love video games and board games, and I'm starting to think that since my time is at such a premium (especially with a four year old child) that I'd rather stick with those for my gaming pleasures.

And see, this is part of the reason I get so tired of hearing the comparison between more recent editions of the game and video games. Besides the fact that board games and and video games are a perfectly legitimate way to spend one's time, the gulf between any edition of an RPG and most video games is so vast that generally the only people who don't KNOW much about most video games are the ones making the comparison.

On that note: last week some friends came over for a five-hour session of ARKHAM HORROR, the Call of Cthulhu boardgame. No rules bickering, no uber-powered characters gleaned from umpteenth source books, no hours of prep for me ahead of time (I usually DM). Instead, we set up the game and had a hell of a good time gaming. Instead of twenty minutes of fun spread out over five hours (which is what D&D 3.5 sessions often become), it was five hours of solid gaming goodness. Now THAT is what I've been missing.

I'm a Talisman 2nd Edition man, myself. I played Arkham Horror, and I -loved- it.

I think more gaming groups should switch up their schedule a bit to provide for DM and player burnout, and also to further explore the dimensions and possibilities that our hobby has to offer.

The other day I took out the old Nintendo GameCube and started playing through Resident Evil 4 again. Damn, was that fun. Give me THAT anyday over debating about attacks of opportunity with some egghead who has more rules knowledge than social skills.

Heh. I hear you, man.

I quit for five years. Best thing I ever did for my love of the game. It's a hobby, not a spouse. Walk away and take up water polo or something. A few decades down the road, who knows? Maybe you'll pick your dice back up in the retirement home!

Since I think the OP said he's already taken a year off from gaming. Sure, maybe he needs a longer break, but maybe a different game or a different style of gaming is in order.

Certainly with a different group of gamers, from what it sounds like.

Life is too short to play games you don't enjoy.

Again, amen.

Plus Conan - and Lord knows I love Robert E. Howard, have since I was a kid - is far from "literature." It was purple-prosed pulp fodder, which is analogous to comic books and video games of today, in that it was designed to be flashy and over the top chewing gum for the mind. Sure, Howard was often brilliant, no question, but the same can be said of some tropes and ideas from comics and games today. And 300...I don't see the problem with this. It's embellished history, which a lot of mythology was. Think the real battle for Troy was anything like the Iliad? I doubt it very much. Homer embellished the story to titillate his audience, just as Frank Miller and the filmmakers of 300 did with the Battle of Thermopylae. And I also bet Robert Howard would've loved 300 - it's an idealized and stylized version of ancient Greece and the Spartans, just as Howard's Hyboria was an idealized and stylized version of ancient Europe.

Well said.

 

[taliesin15]

Believe me, you're not the only one with these problems. Two of the problems here are more widely cultural: players with bad manners, and players who are more interested in vapid pop culture. There's not all that much one can do about it--I saw a Whoopi Goldberg piece a couple of weeks back discussing this very thing, that the younger generation of teens/young adults, while very brilliant, seem to lack when it comes to social skills. I suppose one can and should do one's best to cope and teach these things.

Now the other problem is something very pervasive, and I think has to do with the marketing of new products...all these variant class/feat/spell splatbooks and such on the market, leaving one cold. Sure there are good ones out there, but there's very few really interesting products that really help with roleplaying beyond yr basic hack and slash. Its frankly made me want to make my campaign more and more a satire, something akin to the Another Fine Myth series.

The game has changed. The people that play the game have changed. Without getting too much into the specifics of why I don't like the current batch of products (which may be relevant, but it's been beaten to death and not the discussion I'm looking for), the game just doesn't excite me any more. Shortly after 3.5 the products just started falling flat to me.

I can understand that my own preferences change. What's really bothering me is how the player base has slowly been changing.

Are there any other gamers out there who run games inspired by the Iliad and Conan: the Barbarian instead of Final Fantasy and 300?

I haven't gamed regularly in almost a year now because it's just too many hoops to jump through and too many issues to smooth over to get a group of players that want to actually design characters that are more than a list of powers and meet regularly without the game devolving into either a debate over rules minutiae or devolve into a skulking/shouting match. I'm really disappointed in both the products and the players these days.

I'm tired of the sourcebooks that basically amount to more feats/spells/prestige classes.

 

[fineousdfd119]

hey i know of what you are expressing. luckily i have had the same DM for 20 years. My wife and I ( yes she games too ) moved to florida in 92. Now he comes down once a year for our " mini cons" basically a week long glut of chucking dice and roleplaying. for those not from florida, it is a roleplaying wasteland. but we keep our hands in. I've been incorraged lately with 1e releases ( osric and others) even some 3.5 stuff ( dungeon crawl classics ) have kepp the creative juices flowing. so what i am saying in short ( too late ) is there are people out there who are roleplayers and not video munchins.

 

[taliesin15]

I've found ways to get around the problems of hack and slash cum splatbook fiend psychology by inserting riddles and puzzles that only smart players can solve, and also by having players role-play trying to become say an Arcane Archer (to pick a less odd one)--"who in the village are you trying to ask to train you in these skills"? etc.

One observation, is while the same basic classes keep getting retreaded in endless variation, there are precious few new SKILLS. Kind of interesting, eh? What does that tell us?

Like maybe nothing new is under the sun...?

 

[shilsen]

I've found ways to get around the problems of hack and slash cum splatbook fiend psychology by inserting riddles and puzzles that only smart players can solve...

Even though I really hate pure hack and slash games, IMO a hack and slash game is actually more about roleplaying than what you described. After all, the hack and slash game has PCs succeed and fail based on the PCs' skills. But riddles and puzzles that only smart players can solve depend on the players' abilities, not those of the characters they're supposed to be playing. YMMV, and apparently does.

 

[WayneLigon]

I'm thinking you need to look into trying to find new players, rather than dropping the hobby completely. Taking a break is always good, and lets you recharge your batteries so to speak. This especially works well after a really disasterous cmapaign or series of bad experiences. Take care that these people will get along in a restaurant or something and you'll take care of the 'getting along at the gaming table' bit.

The adventures, I can't really help you with - I very seldom ever use printed adventures. Eyes of the Lich Queen will be the first printed adventure I've run in years. Unless you're talking about Dungeon, WoTC just doesn't make all that many adventures. Look for some back issues of Dungeon and you should be able to find a lot of stuff suited for you. They have some Greyhawk adventures in there as well. Dungeon Crawl Classics might be of some use to you. I've read a few of those and they seem pretty good.

As far as the tone of your game.. I'd suggest finding something to like in the anime/video game/cinematic influence arena there. Honestly, there aren't a lot of new players that are going to have read Conan and I've only ever known two people to say they've read the Iliad.

I wouldn't bother with previous editions. That's just going to reduce your potential player base from small to probably none.

 

[Herobizkit]

And thats why IMO roleplaying and hobby gaming in general is in the state it is. Rather than get into a social game, people are being drawn to online MMORGs and computer games. You want to find new players, get them away from their computers and consoles and get them to a games table.

That's true, but then you have the following issues:

1.) Who is the DM? Everyone wants to be a player. Being a DM is loads of work... work that's already been done for you on WoW (et al).
2.) What rules are we using? Since different players have different tastes, most people insist on using only Core rules (for consistency's sake) or have so many House rules that they need their own version of the PHB as a handout. This is probably 90% of the problem with today's gamers.
3.) Why can't I be X-Y-Z? Following the above, players and DM's have to work together to fit into the DM's niche for his intended world. If you don't, or don't like the limitations, you can always walk... and then you're down a player.
4.) Where's the time? In my age group (and I'm sure in others), people have families, jobs, social and financial responsibilities... and finding a group of players who all can play at the same time seems nigh impossible. In my particular case, I work graveyard 5 nights a week with (normally) Tue-Wed off. Most players want weekends, which I can do, as long as it's only from 6-11. Difficult, but not impossible...
5.) Too many players: people in my area already have 5-6 players in their groups, and no room for more. I could try and start my own group, but I want to play, not DM. The list goes full circle...

All of these difficulties are easily overcome by games like WoW. All the work's done for you, you can play anytime, and you're limited only by what the game provides. Sure, I wish I could play a Blood Elf Druid, but I can't, so I play a Tauren and Get Over It. In a real life game, though, any or all of these issues are enough to make a player walk and/or fragment a group.

 

[Wormwood]

Last year, the rest of my gaming group (of 14 years!) decided that World of Warcraft satisfied all of their roleplaying needs, so they abandoned tabletop play for keyboards and headsets.

Unfortunately, I couldn't spend hours a day on an MMO, so I wasn't able to join them. Now we're not even friends any more. I feel like a friggin' game ate five of my friends.

I'm not comfortable gaming with people I don't know IRL, so that rules out hunting around for a new gaming group. I dabbled with online gaming (dndonlinegames, pbem), but I couldn't keep up with the time commitment (6 hours once per week is much easier for me than one hour every day).

So I have left the hobby in every appreciable sense.

/whine

 

[Wormwood]

And thats why IMO roleplaying and hobby gaming in general is in the state it is. Rather than get into a social game, people are being drawn to online MMORGs and computer games. You want to find new players, get them away from their computers and consoles and get them to a games table.

I've played anough WoW to know that it is a *very* social game. All the social interraction that used to take place at the table is still very much present.

Just sayin'

 

[Insight]

There are games other than D&D. Maybe trying something else would recharge your batteries. Even something non d20 <gasp!>