Shackled City questions - some possible spoilers

[farscapesg1]

Actually, you have a 24 hour grace period with negative levels, during which a single restoration removes all negative levels from a single victim. If it's been more than 24 hours and some of those negative levels have "stuck," then restoration will only restore one drained level.

Can anyone point out exactly where this is stated? Greater Restoration specifically says that it removes all negative levels. Restoration does not have this wording. WOTC Customer Service (and we know how reliable they are ) stated that Restoration only negates one negative level per casting.

 

[James Jacobs]

Can anyone point out exactly where this is stated? Greater Restoration specifically says that it removes all negative levels. Restoration does not have this wording. WOTC Customer Service (and we know how reliable they are ) stated that Restoration only negates one negative level per casting.

It's in the description for restoration, page 272 of the PHB:

"This spell functions like lesser restoration, except that it also dispels negative levels and restores one experience level to a creature who has had a level drained."

Negative levels and level drain are two different things. Level drain doesn't occur till 24 hours after the negative level is inflicted. So if you fight a vampire and then get restoration befroe 24 hours have passed, you'll be fine.

 

[farscapesg1]

Well, that is what I thought, but the Greater Restoration spell (same page) specifically states that it dispels all negative levels. This is a completely seperate statement from the statement of dispelling all lost levels due to energy drain. Because it is specifically stated in the "Greater" version, and not in the "regular" version, I'm pretty sure that this is the way the DM will rule.

 

[BobROE]

Well, that is what I thought, but the Greater Restoration spell (same page) specifically states that it dispels all negative levels. This is a completely seperate statement from the statement of dispelling all lost levels due to energy drain. Because it is specifically stated in the "Greater" version, and not in the "regular" version, I'm pretty sure that this is the way the DM will rule.

1st paragraph of the Restoration spell, 1st sentence. Much like in Greater Restoration, they both dispel all negative levels.

 

[delericho]

When trying to purchase them, we couldn't find anything better than daggers (and maybe one short sword), and the cost for the weapons was quite high (higher than standard book value by 50%).

Since each Restoration spell only removes one negative level, and each casting costs around 500 gp (280 for the spell + 100 for the material component + additional fees from the church),

Well, that is what I thought, but...

<snip>

Because it is specifically stated in the "Greater" version, and not in the "regular" version, I'm pretty sure that this is the way the DM will rule.

I believe that the root of your problems is this DM. He may well be an excellent DM, but he's clearly used to running in a particular style, and a style that just doesn't fit with the campaign he's running. If he goes on in this vein, you will not be able to handle the later adventures in the series.

I would have a serious talk with your DM. If he's not willing to shift the campaign style to be closer to 'standard', he should consider running something else. (Although, there's not much he needs to do to 'fix' this - all he needs to do is increase treasure awards by a factor of about 4, and be sure to allow necessary items to actually be found. Everything else should then fall into place. Oh, and in case anyone is wondering, the value 4 has no basis in anything; it is a number I pulled out of thin air.)

As for PC wealth... A 1st or 2nd level character probably won't have a magic weapon. But by 3rd level, I'd expect one or two magic weapons to be in a party of 4 (when I said "expects PCs to have magic weapons" I should have said "expects some PCs in a party to have a magic weapon").

Okay, thanks.

 

[Shellman]

IMO,

I have played with the training requirement before and I didn't like it. First because we had a DM that starved the party for treasure and magic but still required us to train in order to level up. Second, it slows everything down in the game. The group I play with now rarely has time to stop long enough to think about training. I strongley advise talking to your DM and get him to drop the requirement.

Your adventuring group seems like it has a real problem working together. You have complained about the groups tactics, so talk to the other characters and try to get them to work together. Also, maybe talk to the DM about getting a NPC Rogue into the group to cover some of the skills you party is lacking. If you get a Rogue into the party then you have a real reason to flank (Sneak Attack).

A standard party of 5th level character's should be able to afford a +1 weapon for each character. If you can't then you either are spending your loot without thinking about your future needs or your DM is not giving you enough treasure. You should all look hard at what your spending your money on or whether the DM just isn't giving you enough.

Bottom line, It really sounds like the big problem is the players are not working together (I.e the Ranger waondering off). Rule of thumb: never split up the party or at least try not to!

 

[farscapesg1]

Well, I like the concept of training just not the current execution. It gives us a chance to roleplay out the interation with NPCs that could become important contacts.

The idea of bringing in a rogue NPC is out of the question. The Dwarf cleric is already an NPC and the DM is of the opinion that "you made your bed, now you get to lie in it".

In his opinion, the group hasn't spent their money very wisely. First, we had to spend money on Remove Curse for two players during the first adventure due to the player's not communicating about a trap. Then our favored soul had to spend money on a rope ladder to get to the rest of the party when the elevator was burned (and he was seperated from the group on the top-side). We tend to burn through potions pretty fast, so there is another money drain.

The training costs are really what is killing us I think. The first adventure brought us up to 4th adventure by the end. That is 200+400+600=1200 gp each for training out of the first adventure!!! At that point, only 6 of us needed to level (one player joined at the very end of the adventure already at 4th level) so that was 7200 gp just for training. I think he padded the treasure a little (he treated the Dwarven Urogosh as magical on both ends). Still, that is a huge amount of money to spend out of the first adventure. I've got a copy of the adventure myself and that is really the only change I can see on the treasure that we recieved.

I realize that the tactics and group interraction is a major problem. I've talked to the DM and the group about it, but we still can't seem to get it working right. Part of the problem is several of the members don't feel that others should tell them how to play their character. That means assigning a party leader is pretty useless since they don't want to take suggestions. Throw in the lack of teamwork;
*very little flanking
*no tripping/disarming/sundering attempts
*no aid-another in combat when they know they can't do anything to the target but one of the other members can
*rush into combat before the casters can get off any area spells
*scatter between opponents instead of teaming up to take them out faster.
*etc...etc...etc...

Meh, I think it is best if we scrap the campaign. We need to work things out with the DM so that we are all on the same page about character wealth issues. The players all need to design characters that will work together and work on being receptive to advice from those of us who have a better understanding of the rules.

 

[Sunderstone]

The idea of bringing in a rogue NPC is out of the question. The Dwarf cleric is already an NPC and the DM is of the opinion that "you made your bed, now you get to lie in it".

In his opinion, the group hasn't spent their money very wisely.

Umm... sorry but your DM definately sounds like a hardass. It shows an unwillingness to help the situation. Id get a new DM personally, but I dont know what your group thinks about stuff like that.

 

[farscapesg1]

Well, the group has scrapped the campaign after half the party was decimated by Drakthar's remaining forces. With the three characters who originally started the campaign dead, we have given up and decided to go with the Age of Worms.

The DM is working very hard this time to make sure that the group creates characters that can and would work together instead of everyone having their own agendas and ways of doing things. There will be no NPCs in the group since we have 6 players and should be able to fill every role needed. Of course, I'm not sure he is being strict enough on the players since we have already started to have some issues with the character builds. We've already got players wanting to create "weird" characters (like half-dragons, planetouched, etc.). For the love of all that is holy, I wish I could find a group that was just interested in playing "normal" characters

Is there a reason why no one would want to play rogues or clerics???? I sat back this time and said that I would just fill in a gap in the party since I am happy to play almost any class. It appears that the group may be heading towards the same issue as last campaign in that no one wants to play a rogue. Our only healing was going to come from a Druid so I felt that I needed to fill that hole. Now the DM is having a hard time convincing one of the other players to play a rogue instead of another warrior in the group :\

Honestly, how do the other gaming groups do it? I would think with 6 players there wouldn't be a problem hitting the major areas (warrior/healer/rogue/arcane). Yet, our group ends up with Barbarian/Sorcerer/Druid/Cleric/Warlock/Unknown (though unlikely to be a rogue). Do most other groups include NPCs to fill in the gaps when there are that many players?

 

[Sunderstone]

My group usually works well enough together to cover anything. I try to keep the party going without NPCs for better roleplaying. I only use an NPC to fill in if theres a missing class which usually never happens.
In the Shackled City, I wanted an NPC to help out, Its a tough campaign. My players also take turns rolling for the NPC and each player takes turns at leveling the NPC up (choosing spells, skills etc) at every level. This way they have a hand in the NPCs build.


Good Luck with the Worms. Is your DM still keeping the level training thing?