Shadorun without the shadowrun rules

[Inferno!]

You could give Savage Worlds a try. They offer a free test drive download here. If you find you like the system, the core rule book is available for $9.99 at your FLGS or pdf here. Combine that with the excellent Sci Fi Gear Toolkit and you'll mostly be set.

- Cybernetics? check
- Matrix? check
- Rigging? hmm, honestly I'm not sure :\
- Magic? check
- Fantasy Races? check
- Dragons (& critters in general)? check

Once you understand the system, it is extremely flexible.


(Woo-hoo 100th post! It only took me 3+ years.)

edit: I just knew Flynn would beat to it

 

[Switchblade]

Best thing for Shadowrun?

Shadowrun 3rd ed.

Better matrix rules than 4th ed (once you get the hang of them)
FAR better rigging rules (again, once you get the hang of them)

More gritty healing rules with perpenant damage, limb loss etc.

No stupid skills caps so you don't start the game with your main skill as high as it can ever be

Better magic rules

I would use the low power variant (Mr Johhnsons black book I think) though to reduce starting attributes and cash a little though as the one flaw 3e did have was there was little to save up to buy that you couldn't start with if you were a street sam on fractional essence.

3e does need a few tweaks and a new edition was needed and wanted (makes a change )
unfortunately 4e rules were completely different rather than a refinement and not as good with competely new flaws. When I return to Shadowrun 3e is the edition I'll be using

 

[Dragonhelm]

You might try OGL Cybernet. You would have to add in magic. It's d20 Modern compatible, so you might look at that.

I've been toying lately with the idea of using Star Wars Saga Edition. You would need cybernetics and magic rules, but it's a good baseline. I think you could adapt some D&D-isms as well.

 

[mmu1]

I think it'd help if you explained what aspects of SR make it SR for you.

For example, I've played SR for a while, and for me, more even than the power of the magic system, one of the most important trademarks of SR is the crushing superiority of cybered-up characters over non-augmented folks. But none of the systems listed here can handle a character with (for example) Wired Reflexes adequately. (except GURPS, maybe, but it'd take so many build points it'd be like creating a character for a Supers game)

...out of curiosity, why try to go with SR4 instead of SR3? The clunkiness of some of the SR3 rules? Or is it that none of you have the older rulebooks?

 

[mmu1]

3e does need a few tweaks and a new edition was needed and wanted (makes a change )
unfortunately 4e rules were completely different rather than a refinement and not as good with competely new flaws. When I return to Shadowrun 3e is the edition I'll be using

Yep... SR4 was like D&D 4E, they didn't fix the old game, they threw it out.

 

[Desdichado]

d20 modern - as the magic in d20 modern is quite weak

Huh. I would have thought that was one of the main reasons to suggest it, not a reason to cross it off.

I don't know of any other system that you can use without a bit of converting; the advantage of d20 is that if you add d20 Cyberscape to d20 Modern and Urban Arcana, you've pretty much already got the Shadowrun setting, but with D&D rules.

I mean, you could pick up a nice generic system like Unisystem, or Savage Worlds or something and make a go with it, but if GM prep in GURPS scares you, converting those generic systems to have Shadowrun specific rules and roles seems much more daunting.

I really can't think of a better system than the aforementioned three d20 Modern books for doing Shadowrun but without the Shadowrun rules.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

I'd try to get my hands on Cyberpunk 2020. Adding new races is a piece of cake but the rules for technology (such as decking, cybernetics, and humanity loss) are already there. I also like the combat system better... very realistic and gritty.

 

[GlassJaw]

Yep... SR4 was like D&D 4E, they didn't fix the old game, they threw it out.

I actually disagree. SR4 did change some of the core rules but they definitely maintained the SR feel. From what I've seen about 4E, the same can't be said about maintaining the D&D feel.

And while it maintained the Shadowrun feel, SR4 also cleaned up a lot of the clunky rules which resulted in a much easier and efficient system to run and play.

As a long-time Shadowrun fan, I'm also a firm believer that the system itself largely contributes to the feel and style of the game. Sure, you can play a dark future game with the d20 or other system but it will never be Shadowrun to me.

 

[InVinoVeritas]

It would take some shoehorning, but Torg might be able to handle Shadowrun.

But, in the end, I always felt that it kind of took SR rules to get the SR feel down. At the very least, a considerable amount of design would be necessary to make decking, magic, cyber, and rigging work together in a way that complements each other without overpowering one aspect over another.

 

[mmu1]

I actually disagree. SR4 did change some of the core rules but they definitely maintained the SR feel. From what I've seen about 4E, the same can't be said about maintaining the D&D feel.

And while it maintained the Shadowrun feel, SR4 also cleaned up a lot of the clunky rules which resulted in a much easier and efficient system to run and play.

As a long-time Shadowrun fan, I'm also a firm believer that the system itself largely contributes to the feel and style of the game. Sure, you can play a dark future game with the d20 or other system but it will never be Shadowrun to me.

SR4 changed all of the core rules. Sure, some similiarities remained - some of the stats still had the same names, you used point buy to create characters, you still rolled pools of d6s to resolve stuff - but the actual mechanics have very little in common with SR3 anymore. No combat pool, set TNs, a completely different wound system - and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Though for the record, I was actually very excited about SR4, when I first heard about it - I thought that (for example) the matrix rules were too complex (or needed an alternate simplified mechanic) the magic rules too binary (characters either ended up shrugging off spells or being dead meat, depending on how they were designed, and God help you if you didn't get your Willpower to 6), and the rigging rules too clunky and unbalanced, so I loved the idea of a new edition... until it became clear they were throwing all the rules out the window, including the ones I really liked.

On top of it all, rather than come up with something new, they settled on a core mechanic that was almost an exact copy of the old WoD rules - except using d6s instead of d10s.

The only thing they kept (and actually made worse) was my least favorite aspect of the old system - the need to roll stupidly large (even bigger in SR4 than in SR3) amounts of d6s. At least in SR3, there was some point to it, because of the way variable TNs and success tresholds worked (even if it wasn't the most elegant system in the world), but in SR4, it's just a useless hold-over. The system could have been replaced by M&M style tresholds and opposed rolls, but they decided to stick with it to hide the fact there was nothing left of the old game anymore.
Hell, when they first did PR for it, they had so few things they could list in the FAQ under "What stayed the same?", they actully put down "you still roll tons of d6s" as one of the handful of answers. (most of the others had to do with the fluff, and not the crunch, too)