Shadowdancer variant (rogue/wizard)

Pity it locks out purely martial builds like Rogue/Monk.

Thats what i'm here to change!!:cool:

Sometimes i can't believe how unbalanced the core books really are... ok life is unbalanced too... so yes in the game there's that as well (Still i always believe i would have done a better job... can't fight with my ego..)
 

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It's so broken, the link takes you to a non-existent page!

Problem is that for some reason the site-links leave out the parenthesis at the end, otherwise the sites work just fine.

..Here.. i'll paste them again.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Shadow_Dancer_Variant_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)

http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Shadowdancer,_Tome_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)

As far as "unbalance" is concerned, i'd say that even a straight Wizard is weak compared to an Arcane Trickster (perhaps even compared to any PrC that allows 100% spell progression). Those exrta feats every 5 Lvls and the companion's improvement mean nothing compared to the benefits of the Trickster. In Lvls 15+ the Wizard should have been top of the line... yet he is isn't...
A shame really... they should have respected this HISTORIC class a bit more...
Nowadays one should be stupid to take a straight wizard... Not to mention taking a straight Rogue!! That's suicide!!

...It's things like this that make me say that 2nd e was better... damn...
 

As far as "unbalance" is concerned, i'd say that even a straight Wizard is weak compared to an Arcane Trickster (perhaps even compared to any PrC that allows 100% spell progression).
Misleading. Arcane Trickster requires 3 levels of Rogue to enter, so you'll end up three caster levels behind. That's a significant disadvantage for the ability to deal sneak attack damage to certain types of enemies.

That rather lessens the impact of most of your subsequent posts. I'll agree that straight wizard is weaker than a wizard with a good full spell progression prestige class but a straight wizard is still more powerful than most classes and builds in 3.5e, including Arcane Tricksters.

Still, I suppose I could be wrong. Do you want to make a level 20 Arcane Trickster and compare it to a level 20 wizard to see who comes out on top?
 
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Still, I suppose I could be wrong. Do you want to make a level 20 Arcane Trickster and compare it to a level 20 wizard to see who comes out on top?

Go ahead and try that! I'm afraid I know the answer to this one...(poor wizard...:erm:)

No really, at this Level we both know its a matter of initiative. Nothing more:D

He who goes first wins... but if the battle between the two was to go on beyond two or three rounds... well they both have 9th level spell(s)... yet the one has evasion, more hit points, a reflex save as good as his will save, skills and skill tricks that make it impossible for the other to counterspell... a better BAB for purposes of weapon-like spells... I'm afraid the wizard's frog won't be able to save the day...:erm:
 
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He who goes first wins... but if the battle between the two was to go on beyond two or three rounds... well they both have 9th level spell(s)...
One of whom just got them, the other of whom has been using them for the past three levels. And has more of them. And casts them at a higher caster level.

yet the one has evasion
Oh noes, you'll survive Fireball, widely regarded as the best spell of all time. If you're a spellcaster, you could just use Resist Energy or Protection from Energy and get protection that way.

more hit points
The difference between a d4 and a d6 is, what an average of 1 hit point per level? You'll end up, what, 13 hit points ahead assuming equal Con?

a reflex save as good as his will save
Reflex is generally regarded as the least important of the three saves (most important being Will, second being Fort). While having a good reflex save isn't a bad thing, it's also not the best thing since diced turnips.

skills and skill tricks that make it impossible for the other to counterspell...
Yes... it is impossible to counterspell skills. Here's a better question: what skills are relevant at such high a level?

a better BAB for purposes of weapon-like spells...
Given that blasting is rather suboptimal, I'm happy to let you have your BAB.

I'm afraid the wizard's frog won't be able to save the day...
Rat, actually. Polymorphed into a Yrthak.
 
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...Seems like the war is on!!!!...:rant:

One of whom just got them, the other of whom has been using them for the past three levels. And has more of them. And casts them at a higher caster level.

As if it matters how many one has in such a duel!!
Lets just say the Arcane Trickster has a racial substitution like "Elven Wizard"
(RotW)
and has a couple of 9th level spells... Its more than enough.

They cast with the same caster level - Practiced Spellcaster Feat, (Complete Arcane).

Oh noes, you'll survive Fireball, widely regarded as the best spell of all time. If you're a spellcaster, you could just use Resist Energy or Protection from Energy and get protection that way.

Oh you can go ahead and lose those rounds casting your resist energy and protection from energy... on the house

The difference between a d4 and a d6 is, what an average of 1 hit point per level? You'll end up, what, 13 hit points ahead assuming equal Con?

Not even that.
You got me there... thought the Trickster had d6, but he's got a d4 like the wizard.
They are both well bellow 100 so Powerword Kill works just fine:D
Guess i won't be needing that extra 9th lvl spell after all.
As i said earlier... highest initiative wins...:D

I think its safe to assume that the Trickster has a better Dex modifier and that he has more chances of going first! (I'd even say he has the improved initiative Feat as well but you can argue that your wizard has that as well... even though chances are you 'll find this feat more often on a Trickster than a Wizard...

Reflex is generally regarded as the least important of the three saves (most important being Will, second being Fort). While having a good reflex save isn't a bad thing, it's also not the best thing since diced turnips.

Sure. Still that is a plus for the Trickster. Don't forget Evasion!

Yes... it is impossible to counterspell skills. Here's a better question: what skills are relevant at such high a level?

Never said anything about counterspelling "skills". I said that its impossible to counterspell the trickster.
What skills are relevant? if not all, here are two: Bluff & Sleight of hand
Why?

ConCeal sPellCasTIng [ManIPulaTIon]
You can cast spells without others noticing . Prerequisite: Concentration 1 rank, Sleight of Hand 5
ranks, Spellcraft 1 rank . Benefit: You can cast a spell without revealing that you
are doing so . Make a Sleight of Hand check as part of the action used to cast the spell, opposed by the Spot checks of onlookers . If you are successful, an observer can’t tell that you’re casting a spell . That observer cannot make an attack of opportunity against you for casting, nor can it attempt to counter your spell

false TheurgY [ManIPulaTIon]
“How’s that magic missile feel? I’m sorry—did you think I was casting sleep?”
Prerequisite: Bluff or Sleight of Hand 8 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks .
Benefit: As a swift action when casting a spell, you can adjust the spell’s verbal and somatic components to mimic those of another spell of your choice of the same level . Any creature using Spellcraft or any other means to identify the spell you’re casting believes it to be the other spell instead .
This trick renders your spell immune to the normal method of counterspelling, though dispel magic or a similar effect still works normally . Of course, once the spell takes effect, it can be identified and dealt with normally (a fireball still looks and feels like a fireball once you’ve cast it)


Both are Skill tricks found in Complete Scoundrel.

Given that blasting is rather suboptimal, I'm happy to let you have your BAB.

Thank you

...

Thing is that as much as I really like certain PrCs... at the end of the day i really wish they didn't exist at all! Its cases like this that make me look back to previous editions... Trust me I LOVE the straight Wizard... as I LOVE the straight Rogue... problem is they are overshadowed by powefull PrCs.
Come on! how many people do you know to take a straight class beyond 10th Level (or 7th or 8th) nowadays?

...OK PrCs offer variety customization blah blah blah... the least they could do was to keep the main classes "in the game"...
 
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