Shadowdancers

[Quickbeam]

I'm just curious how some other DM's deal with players whose characters have this PrC...specifically how you handle the ability to "hide in plain sight." One of my players just took his first level of shadowdancer, and I'd like to avoid any difficulties or pitfalls some of you may have encountered with the aforementioned ability.

As always, thanks in advance!

 

[Thanee]

Well, our shadowdancer player uses this ability as (I think it is) intended, to actually hide, not to turn invisible while in combat.

The only thing I can think of, how this ability can be abused is, by using it repeatedly in combat to effectively turn invisible. Attack, HiPS, attack, HiPS, etc.

To avoid this, simply apply the Sniping rule from Song & Silence to this situation and apply a -20 modifier to the hide check, if it follows an attack action.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Pielorinho]

I used the ability against the PCs before one of the PCs took the class, so I can't nerf it now . Basically, I allow it to work almost exactly as said: given significant shadows nearby, a shadowdancer can attempt to make a hide check, even when someone is looking at them. It's a supernatural ability; I describe it as the shadowdancer seeming to become shadowstuff and disappearing. Even if someone sees him, they see him as a gray, shadowy, almost 2-dimensional being.

The "significant" shadows is the only change from the written rules. As I read it, technically, you can hide in the gnome illusionist's shadow. And that don't fly in my world. You've got to have something more than big enough to fit into.

Daniel

 

[Quickbeam]

Thanks for the replies!

The player IMC appears to want the ability to allow for the sequence Thanee has described...which seems waaaayy broken IMO. I'd considered the -20 modifier to Hide checks, but wanted other suggestions and/or group rulings on HiPS.

I would also rule that the PC cannot hide in any shadow, but shadows which are larger than the character in question. Any other thoughts?

 

[Dr. NRG]

HiPS

Any character can already hide in a shadow big enough to hide in... A shadowdancer should be able to do more.

Hide in plain sight is supernatural, meaning that it allows something beyond what can naturally be done. IMHO, that means things like hiding in a gnome's shadow. If a monk's supernatural speed lets him easily outdistance a horse, a shadowdancer's supernatural hiding should let him conceal himself where even a stalking panther would have trouble hiding.

If it ain't broke, and I don't see a whole lot of threads complaining about the shadowdancer being broken, don't fix it. If it turns out, in your campaign, that it is broken, then do. This is a generally applicable rule, and particularly so with core rule items such as a PrC out of the DMG.

 

[Stalker0]

I wouldn't go with the -20 to hide checks, the whole point of the ability is to be able to do it without hide penalties.

I would say that having to have a big enough shadow around is a fine extension of the rules to maintain balance.

 

[incognito]

quite simple really,

Since this ability assumes that it is the lack of light, or shadows that allow the shadow dancer to hide, I'd rule anything with blindsight, tremor sense, even darnkision is the shadowdancer had geat that was not cammo'd to eliminate this ability.

The creature Shadow get's away with hiding from darkvision becsaue he is OF shadow (black, or grey).

 

[mythago]

Hiding in plain sight is a SUPERNATURAL ability.

My GM requires a Hide check, and it also takes an action to step into the shadow and hide. No combat stuff where you jump out, attack, then jump in before your enemy gets to counter-attack.

BTW, I can't recommend a Ring of Invisibility to Darkvision enough for a Shadowdancer character.

 

[Thanee]

I wouldn't go with the -20 to hide checks, the whole point of the ability is to be able to do it without hide penalties.

I would say that having to have a big enough shadow around is a fine extension of the rules to maintain balance.

The point is to hide in plain sight, not to do fancy combat stuff.

The proposed -20 modifier ONLY applies if the ability would be used in the same round as an attack (i.e. as part of a move action).

I think it is absolutely justified.

Bye
Thanee

 

[coyote6]

When the PCs fought a shadowdancer, I had the shadowdancer do the hide-attack-hide -- but the HiPS part took a standard action to do, so she could at best get one (sneak) attack every other round. I forget the exact reasons I decided it would take a standard action to do -- IIRC, most skills & supernatural abilities take a standard action to use. Plus, the end result as a combat ability is just like using a Bluff to get sneak attacks -- one attack every other round is a sneak attack, if the attacker wins an opposed skill check.

FWIW, the shadowdancer got chopped up after using the trick twice -- the PCs figured out the danger quickly and jumped on her.