Shadowdancers

[Byrons_Ghost]

According to the SRD, using a supernatural ability is a standard action. Even if it weren't, I'm pretty sure that hiding itself is a standard action, so it's sort of moot.

Ring of Invisibility to Darkvision

I'm not familiar with this spell/magic item, can someone tell me where it could be found?

 

[Pielorinho]

When the PCs fought a shadowdancer, I had the shadowdancer do the hide-attack-hide -- but the HiPS part took a standard action to do, so she could at best get one (sneak) attack every other round. I forget the exact reasons I decided it would take a standard action to do -- IIRC, most skills & supernatural abilities take a standard action to use. Plus, the end result as a combat ability is just like using a Bluff to get sneak attacks -- one attack every other round is a sneak attack, if the attacker wins an opposed skill check.

FWIW, the shadowdancer got chopped up after using the trick twice -- the PCs figured out the danger quickly and jumped on her.

That's pretty much exactly how it went down when I dropped a shadowdancer on my PCs: one nasty sneak-attack every two rounds (plus one non-sneak-attack from iterative attacks).

Between the round that the cleric cast Hold Person on him and the round that the cleric performed a Coup de Gras on him, the shadowdancer had one turn; he used it to contemplate how low-wisdom NPCs like him really ought to invest in the Iron Will feat .

Daniel

 

[Quickbeam]

Doh!!!

I forgot that using a supernatural ability is a standard action. See what happens when your mind is pulled in too many directions? I must re-focus on D&D and allow less important things to interfere with my thinking .

Thanks everyone for helping me wake up. A sneak attack every other round is totally reasonable, but one every round through HiPS is not IMO. This solves my quandry.

 

[mythago]

The way to really scare your player with a shadowdancer is to get one with the Shadow Jump feat. She steps into a shadow, the players hunt for her, meanwhile she's 20' or more away readying a backstab.

The shade-pet is also pretty scary; it drains STR.

 

[Orias]

Thanks everyone for helping me wake up. A sneak attack every other round is totally reasonable, but one every round through HiPS is not IMO. This solves my quandry.

Well, as long as the Shadow Dancer doesn't have Shadow Jump, you could always have an intelligent enemy put two & two together that the person is probably invisible, & to just keep a partial action held while facing their direction, making (attempted) concerned listen & spot checks near the area where they disappeared. They then could smash when the dancer tries to jump out & stab them in the throat.

 

[WizarDru]

Don't forget the limitation on movement while someone is hiding. Half-movement makes it easy to run away from a Shadowdancer, if the option is open.

The HiPS ability isn't broken. Even if the player were hasted and used it every round, it's still not going to scale as well as a standard fighter's damage. Compare a 10th level fighter with the appropriate feats and either a bow or greatsword against a character with a couple of levels of Shadowdancer. HiPS is not going to look as sexy, then. Especially since this really can degenerate into a 'sneak attack is too powerful' argument, in which case nothing I can say will convince you that HiPS isn't overpowered, by extension.

 

[Bonedagger]

I know that See Invisibility don't reveal hiding creatures but does this change since the Hide in plain sight is SU? It's not like there need to be something blocking the line of sight.

[Never mind. I'll post this in the rules forum]

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

Re: HiPS

If it ain't broke, and I don't see a whole lot of threads complaining about the shadowdancer being broken, don't fix it. If it turns out, in your campaign, that it is broken, then do. This is a generally applicable rule, and particularly so with core rule items such as a PrC out of the DMG.

So, if it ain't broke, tell me.... Can he hide in his own shadow? Cuz according to the rules, there's nothing stopping him from doing just that.

It may not be broke, but it sure is silly.

 

[Gargoyle]

Re: Re: HiPS

So, if it ain't broke, tell me.... Can he hide in his own shadow? Cuz according to the rules, there's nothing stopping him from doing just that.

It may not be broke, but it sure is silly.

You are mistaken. According to the DMG "they cannot, however, hide in their own shadows."

I don't think it's broken or silly, but I do wish the shadowdancer class were designed differently. There is too much incentive to just take one level.

 

[Pielorinho]

Re: HiPS

If it ain't broke, and I don't see a whole lot of threads complaining about the shadowdancer being broken, don't fix it. If it turns out, in your campaign, that it is broken, then do. This is a generally applicable rule, and particularly so with core rule items such as a PrC out of the DMG.

Well, there's rules-broken, and then there's plausibility-broken. If I can't see in my head what something looks like, or if it looks goofy when I imagine it, I'll want to change it.

I'm not nearly so concerned with balance as I am with coolness. A Shadowdancer hiding in the shadow of a kobold is uncool, in my opinion; thus my change to the rules.

Daniel