Shadowfell, and reworking of undead and afterlife

[pemerton]

They resemble the place of gods in Buddhism, actually. In Buddhism, gods are beings that can break the cycle of death and rebirth, just like humans in that regard.

I thought it was the case that a god has to be reborn as a human before they can achieve enlightement.

 

[sirwmholder]

All the things you mention are expressly canvassed in W&M, except old age.

Well I guess that does it... I firmly believe in 4e cosmology.

A prospector can pan for gold in a stream without knowing where the rest of the gold goes when the stream sweeps it out to sea.

Great analogy!

William Holder

 

[ferratus]

U

And Zeus is, what, exactly? The Sky personified? So why was he such a horny bastard when it came to pretty mortals?

Power and potency. Irresistable, generative, puts the universe into order (logos) power. Now, obviously Greek paganism did not have a systematic theology so the interpretations of the gods will vary. All that really mattered after all was community-based ritual worship designed to cultivate benevolence of the gods (so they wouldn't screw you over in general principle).

So yeah, you have Zeus born on the island of Crete. He certainly isn't the creator of the universe, and is not an unmoved mover (much to the chagrin of certain pagan philosophers) but the core principle comes from that embodiment of power expressed through rulership.

You can see this with other gods too. When Achilles fights the river Scamander and kills him, the river dries up. When Helen is arguing with Aphrodite the story is more powerful (and makes more sense) if she is arguing with the embodiment of her own lust for Paris.

Now the gods were not passionless and without personality. However, their personality reflected the emotion, principle, or geographical feature they were anthropomorphizations of. Also, as something immortal and greater than human, their emotions were on a scale unmatched by humans. When gods are angry or grieve, they go ballistic. Likewise, the anger of Achilles is god-like in the Illiad, being born the son of a goddess.

And as far as Norse deities go, if memory serves, in at least one myth, Odin was raised by humans. So I'm thinking he didn't exactly exist before them.

Omnipotent, omniscient deities don't make for interesting adventures.

I wouldn't use the same example for the Norse gods, they are a different kettle of fish. You can draw some similarities, but the Norse gods don't seem as animistic as the Greco-Roman pantheon. The relationship with the Norse gods also seems to have been more personal between the worshippers and the deities. I have a couple books I lifted from a university course list on Norse religion (the only reliable way to get any sure information with all the books written by crackpots in your local bookstore), but I haven't found the time to read them.

Also, who said anything about the Greek Gods being omniscient or omnipotent? They were immortal and powerful, that's all.

 

[pemerton]

the only reliable way to get any sure information with all the books written by crackpots in your local bookstore

A sound principle of scholarship!