Shamus does AoO

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

True

Call it a character flaw.

What feat did you take for it?

:budumppshh!:

 

[greywulf]

What feat did you take for it?

:budumppshh!:

Well, it wasn't Combat Reflexes

 

[CryHavoc]

I don't respond well to dumb comedy. AoOs really lend themselves to satirizing, but this isn't it.

Can someone explain to me why Legolas, a 6th+ level character, still hasn't worked out that he can't make attacks of opportunity with his bow? I mean, it's not like knowing that is difficult, especially when the elf uses his bow *all the time*.

This post is vastly humourous for a completely different reason.

 

[babomb]

I really don't understand why so many people think AoOs are hard to use. I've understood them perfectly well since before 3e came out (thanks to Eric Noah's site). So I didn't find the strip very funny. However, I read some of the archives and they are most amusing.

 

[MerricB]

If I may note: I consider AoOs a really suitable topic for humour. I really do - there are many situations where they become convoluted, confusing, and many other terms beginning with C. (Witness someone standing up provoking someone with ability to Trip... I know how it works, but it's not completely obvious when looking at the rules).

However, for the humour to work, you've got to create a situation when the confusion is clear. Legolas not knowing that a bow can't make an AoO just shows how dumb Legolas is, not the AoO rules.

*Good* humour from confusing rules or other situations? Lots of examples. Rich Burlew does so often. "Spell Level... L.E.V.E.L." comes to mind, the exaggeration of the "Armor Check Penaltae"...

One of my favourite bits of comedy comes from Dork Tower (IIRC), when the DM sets the PCs against a rather mismatched group of enemies: the contents of one booster of D&D Miniatures! This pokes fun at the drawbacks of the random nature of the minis really well, without giving the reader a "huh?" moment.

Cheers!

 

[AuraSeer]

No disconnect at all.

Understand != liking and wanting to use

Me understanding doesn't stop another member of the group not understanding (or understanding differently. The rules are not clear and don't cover every situation), and wanting to check the rules. Or another member disagreeing and looking up a counter-reference. Or me saying screw it, and banning them outright because it's just too much hastle over one single concept no matter how "simple" it's supposed to be. It's only a game and life is too short to care, frankly.

Please don't take this as a slam; I'm genuinely curious. If you ditch AoOs because players misunderstand them, have you removed the grapple rules too? In all the 3E games I've played, run, or overheard, grappling has generated a lot more arguments and page-flipping than the AoO rules ever have.

How about charge and overrun? Bull rush? Disarm? Size rules and squeezing? Encumbrance? Turn undead?

If you expect your players to memorize everything else in the combat section, they should have no problem memorizing the AoO rules too. If they haven't memorized everything, where do you draw the line between the stuff they're allowed to look up and the stuff that's too much of a hassle?

 

[greywulf]

Please don't take this as a slam; I'm genuinely curious. If you ditch AoOs because players misunderstand them, have you removed the grapple rules too? In all the 3E games I've played, run, or overheard, grappling has generated a lot more arguments and page-flipping than the AoO rules ever have.

Good questions, all. Thanks for asking

AoO is the only one that's been House Ruled as dead in the water by the group. The rest we actively use and encourage, even Grapple. And I agree - the grapple rules are another part of the rules that need a serious long hard revision as they are kinda obtuse (cue some smartass saying "I understand them, you must be stupid" then miquotifying me at some point in the near future). But we're ok with them, so they stay just as they are.

While we try not to have folks checking rules mid-combat (and yes, we are en experienced enough group not to need to /that/ often), it does happen. When it does we try to make it as quick as possible so the flow doesn't get interupted. That said, I don't think we've had to check the rules for charge, bull rush, overrun and all the rest for a loooong time.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Unfortunately the common sense argument doensn't really work here, because the rules dictating when you get an AoO are common sense.


When you do something to distract to yourself from the person standing next to you trying to whack you, you provoke an AoO. Drink a potion? Yep, AoO. Cast a spell? Yup. Read a book? Yep. Tie your shoes? Yup. Shoot a bow? Yep. Draw your sword? Nope!

Get paralysed by Hold Person? Nope!

Obviously although I can't move in any sense whatsoever, I don't draw an AoO. Can it be that I'm not distracted? Although paralysed, I'm so focussed on my opponents mentally that it puts them off attempting to take a free whack at me?

AoO are a rule/set of rules. D&D has them, other games don't. They can be used or not used, they may make some situations more sensible while at the same time making other situations a bit strange, but hey - all rule sets have tradeoffs.

SO

please don't dogpile on someone just because he doesn't like them and chooses not to use them. By all means talk about it, but don't go ridiculing others, OK?

Thanks

 

[greywulf]

AoO are a rule/set of rules. D&D has them, other games don't. They can be used or not used, they may make some situations more sensible while at the same time making other situations a bit strange, but hey - all rule sets have tradeoffs.

Well said, Plane Sailing!

I'm actually enjoying the debate; it's fun to see why other people use AoOs and get along just fine with them where we don't. Everything is open to review of course, so if someone could come up with a compelling reason to add them back (and a way to avoid all those times that the rules intrude on the imaginitive play because of them), I'd be happy to hear it and take it to my group. I haven't seen it yet, but you never know

The flack I don't mind. It's good, healthy emotive speaking. I like that. The folks who don't read the posts properly then misquote though. That's annoying!

 

[Aaron L]

Get paralysed by Hold Person? Nope!

I'd say that's much more a problem with the spell and/or the Paralyzed condition than with Attacks of Opportunity.