Shape of RPG Industry

Glyfair said:
Still, I think online gaming is a different experience from a tabletop game. At least to me, the experience online is far inferior to sitting at a table for an evening and playing an RPG.

I think if you're talking about PbP style games, that's certainly true. I've been playing in an occasional Shadowrun game online, though, that's been a lot of fun. We use voice chat with an IM / Whiteboard setup. Using IM in conjunction is fun because you can have side conversations between players (IC or OOC) or with the GM w/out really disrupting the flow of play. Obviously we'd rather do it face-to-face, but when some of you live in MA, others in OH, others in AZ, and one guy wherever his company's got him holed up that week, online is really your only option.
 

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I also found some interesting comments to the state of the industry by Ryan Dancey.

This year I had the pleasure of participating on two panels (both due to last minute invitations from friends - Thanks Stan! and James). The first, “Is D20 Dead” was eye opening. It was the first time that the difference between “D20 games” and “games that use the rules of D20” was made clear to me as something that matters to the channel and the players. That’s a development I had not clearly anticipated. In my mind, people would call a game a “D20 game” if it used those rules, regardless of what logos appeared on the product. Apparently not. In fact, due to a series of missteps by Wizards of the Coast and others, the D20 System Trademark has become an anti-brand; a mark of lower quality, and it is likely to slowly fade into memory shortly. (Source)

I found that bit of information interesting. Do you here think, that D20 system Trademark has become an anti-brand? Do you see some difference between "D20 game" and "game that use the rules of D20"?

Also I have found some informations (by Ryan Dancey) on the the size of US tabletop RPG market. I don't know how correct they are.

The total size of the US tabletop RPG market, at retail, is between $35 and $45 million a year (exclusive of D&D minis and D&D novels). About 2/3rds of that figure is Wizards of the Coast. (Source)

and here

Is there any evidence to suggest that the $20 million or so dollars lost by the tabletop RPG category in retail sales in the past 5 years has been replaced by sales of Indy RPGs? (Source)

If I put last two pieces of information together, does that mean, that the market has drop down 30% or should I read it like it droped down 10% (is it $20 million over the past 5 years or is it dropdown from $55 - $65 to $35 - $45). And if any of this number is correct, how correspond with the feeling of feeling that all is good and all is well.

I recomend to read the whole discussion at the last posted sorce (Mike Mearls blog). And Last question - do you think that indie RPGs has some significant impact on the tabletop RPG industry as the discussion indicate?
 

What makes an average gamer who buys things? I'd imagine it's a DM who owns the three core rulebooks. Indie RPGs would be directed at those who have any desire to go beyond the three core rulebooks.
 

Word of mouth helps a lot.
Timmundo said:
What makes an average gamer who buys things? I'd imagine it's a DM who owns the three core rulebooks. Indie RPGs would be directed at those who have any desire to go beyond the three core rulebooks.
 

I wrote this in my blog back in January. You may find it of interest.

"Roleplaying in 2007 is a category of extremes. On the one hand, it’s possible to see the current RPG market as a golden age for the fans. There new games coming out all the time and it’s never been easier to find even the most obscure titles with the advent of PDF sales and POD technology. You can order one of the fifty printed copies of a game that uses the torture of field mice as its resolution mechanic and central metaphor and you can do it in your underwear at 3 am. By anyone’s estimation, there are far more RPG games and support products coming out than one group could ever use. RPG fans are spoiled for choice as never before.

On the other hand, RPG publishing as a business is in a perilous state. The gap between the big publishers and the small publishers is widening, just as the gap between the rich and the poor is widening in America. There used to be a middle ground for successful RPG companies, a place between the one man shop and TSR where a company could have full time staffers, put out regular releases in print, and make a decent wage. That space is becoming more and more difficult to occupy. The reasons for this are legion, from failing hobby stores to just-in-time ordering to the shrinking number of roleplayers to the heated competition for every entertainment dollar. So you have a small number of larger companies like WotC, GW, and White Wolf and an ever-expanding roster of PDF/POD companies, with the shrinking middle ground occupied by the likes of Green Ronin, SJG, Goodman, Atlas, and MWP. With the market for third party d20 material continuing its death spiral, there is no longer a quick and easy way for new companies to establish themselves. With RPGs making up the smallest percentage of retailers’ sales, making the jump from part time hobby to full time business is getting harder and harder.

Historically speaking, roleplaying has never strayed too far from its roots. The origin of tabletop gaming is hobbyist and everyone who works in the industry started out as just another gamer. It is a nerdy version of the American Dream, where anyone with the gumption can pull themselves up by their own bootstraps and get into the RPG industry. The danger of current trends is that the RPG industry could complete its polarization into two camps: small hobbyist companies that sell PDFs and POD books largely direct and big professional companies that do traditional game publishing through the three-tier system and the book trade. This would not be a welcome development, as the RPG industry needs a "middle class".

Mid-level RPG companies have performed some important functions in the game industry. First, they have provided readily available games for players to graduate to after D&D or the WoD games. While there are certainly many fans who find those games and never leave them, there have always been those who become dissatisfied and look for something else. It has been the mid-tier companies that catch those gamers and ensure they don't just leave roleplaying altogether. Second, they provide a training ground for designers, editors, illustrators, and entrepreneurs. You can learn a lot working for such a company and parley that into a job in a bigger company, the computer game industry, comics, etc. Third, they are the place most likely to bring about the "next big thing" in roleplaying. The large companies are too risk averse to take big chances and the small companies lack the means and often the expertise to pull it off. The mid-level companies are hungry, but they do have resources and know-how that can turn an idea into a real success.

I know there are people who are very excited about the growth of the small press thanks to advances to technology that allow games to be delivered directly to the consumer in ways that just didn't exist 20 years ago. Certainly new ideas and implementations are always welcome, but we shouldn't fool ourselves. While it is true that a game that sold 100 copies last year and 200 copies this year has doubled its sales, in my mind this is not a cause for celebration for the RPG industry at large. Nor is the continued stagnation of D&D and WotC's failure to bring in the stream of new players that RPGs need if they are to ever again become a category that shows real growth."
 

Pramas said:
I wrote this in my blog back in January. You may find it of interest.

Jeez! Chris Pramas! Now I am bit timid, because I feel deep respect to Green Ronin. But I have to admit, I find your article full of new interesting ideas and new emerging questions.

Pramas said:
The reasons for this are legion, from failing hobby stores to just-in-time ordering to the shrinking number of roleplayers to the heated competition for every entertainment dollar.

Interesting. How severely is the number of roleplayers shrinking. And how many of roleplayers is acutally out there today. I only know the old WotC survey, which is a lot out-of-date today. I've read a lot about vanishing hobby stores (form Ryan Dancey) and I must admit, that this effect I see here in my country as well. From about 10 of hobby stores in Prague 3 are left today. Not good for a capital city with 1,3 million inhabitants. But on the other hand I don't feel shrinkage of roleplayers rather the opposite. But it is possible, that Central Europe was not yet hit by the RPG market trauma.

Pramas said:
With the market for third party d20 material continuing its death spiral, there is no longer a quick and easy way for new companies to establish themselves.

Is there really a death spiral of d20? I am surprised, because I would expect the opposite. Once the market evolution of the market selected the strong publisher (survival of the fittest) I would expect the blossom of the few chosen ones. And I expect the Green Ronin to be one of them.

Pramas said:
Nor is the continued stagnation of D&D and WotC's failure to bring in the stream of new players that RPGs need if they are to ever again become a category that shows real growth."

Is D&D and WotC stagnating? In what sense? In the amount of players, or solded products of both? What are the reasons? This might be severe problem later because D&D is entry-level game par excellence and its health is desperately needed by anyone else on the market. If D&D is ill the RPG market is ill as well. Because the new players usually coming through the D&D to other products are not comming this time.

I also have a feeling, that this effect of D&D waves of success (and overall RPG market growth) and failure and drastical impacts on the market are cyclical and we are right now on the descent. What is you opinion as a publisher and gamer? And what the others think about it?
 

Rykion said:
I think ICV2 gets their numbers from North American distributors. I suspect WHFRP would be in the top 5 of a more international survey.

Last night I had a post that said something like this, but I decided I was too tired to be very coherent.

One problem with moving to the international market in discussions (even though a large number of people here are part of it) is that many countries have their own microcosm of RPGs. Even many European countries have never had a strong D&D presence. Perhaps a better idea would be to discuss the English speaking world (since the language of an RPG has a major effect on its usefulness).

I wonder which countries have a D&D as their primary RPG, which it isn't but was, and which ones have no significant RPG presence. Maybe time for a new thread.
 

Glyfair said:
One problem with moving to the international market in discussions (even though a large number of people here are part of it) is that many countries have their own microcosm of RPGs. Even many European countries have never had a strong D&D presence. Perhaps a better idea would be to discuss the English speaking world (since the language of an RPG has a major effect on its usefulness).

I understand your point, although I am from one of these European countries myself. And ironically the players of D&D and other games of US origin (WoD etc.) are small minority here, desperately fighting to survive. But still I am intrested in North American market because 99% of time, we are under direct or indirect influence of it. Although sometimes I see the problem more through my European point of view.

Glyfair said:
I wonder which countries have a D&D as their primary RPG, which it isn't but was, and which ones have no significant RPG presence. Maybe time for a new thread.

we have least than 1000 D&D players. And I know at least one player of each group round here. :lol:
 

Well, I have decided to make some search on Amazon Sales Rank of different RPGs. I know that the Rank changes a lot and it is not the best possible approach, but still it can provide some information about the industry I think. Feel free to comment. I have run the RPGs I know using the most core rule book of each (PHB for DnD, Characters for GURPS etc.)

SW Saga Edition (#1,609) WotC (launching, for comparison only)

1. D&D 3.5e PHB (#3,392) WotC
2. D20 Modern (#8,196) WotC
3. Shadowrun 4e (#11,680) Fanpro
4. Mutants and Masterminds (#20,823) GR
5. Exalted (#25,004) WW
6. Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (#49,097) GR
7. World of Darkness (#53,576) WW
8. Vampire: The Requiem (#72,111) WW
9. Legend of Five Rings (#72,704) AEG
10. BESM 3e (#95,316) WW
11. GURPS (#100,565) SJG
12. Werwolf: The Forsaken (#119,144) WW
13. Call of Cthulhu (#123,193) Chaosium
14. Qin: The Warring States (#150,258) 7th Circle
15. Unknown Armies 2e (#164,873) Atlas
16. Paranoia XP (#188,473) Mongoose
17. Star Trek RPG (#231,851) Decipher
18. Feng Shui (#267,606) Atlas
19. True20 (#285,485) GR
20. Ars Magica 5e (#338,264) Atlas

I am surprised by seeing Shadowrun so high. I am not suprised by Exalted scoring higher than WoD. The distance between Warhammer and World of Darkness is pretty small, but Warhammer is winning. WOW! GURPS not even in top10 - strange! And I would expect True20 to be higher than this.
 

Alnag said:
I am surprised by seeing Shadowrun so high.

Why? Shadowrun has got a great core story, it's a little like D&D conceptually, and it had a huge run of novels (40+ and more recently 6 additions) that proved the world background was engaging and interesting to many people. The new version of the rules (for most people, anyway) is reinvigorating the game a little like 3.0 did for D&D.
 

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