Shapechange and an 18th level Sorcerer

[gfunk]

I hit 18th level in Sorcerer (Sor 10, Alienist 8)!!

Woo hoo!!

As my first 9th level spell, I took Shapechange. I just wanted to make sure that I understood the mechanics correctly. Below are a couple of monsters that I've met and would like to change into. I would greatly appreciate it if the rules-gurus could check it for accuracy:

My PC's own stats (with items)
Str 14
Con 14
Dex 13
Int 15
Wis 10
Cha 25

HP - 91
AC - 17 (+1 Dex, +4 armor, +2 deflection)
BAB = 9/4
Saves: Fort +13 (+5 base, +1 insight, +5 resistance, +2 Con)
Ref +14 (+5 base, +1 insight, +5 resistance, +1 Dex, +2 Lightning Reflexes)
Will +19 (+13 base, +1 insight, +5 resistance)

Form #1 -- Pit Fiend

Large Outsider
Hit Dice: 18d4 + 36 (91 hp)
Initiative: +1 (+1 Dex)
Speed: 40 ft, fly 60 ft (average)
AC: 36 (-1 size, +1 Dex, +20 natural, +4 armor, +2 deflection)
Attacks: 2 claws +15 melee, 2 wings +10 melee, bite +10 melee, tail slap +10 melee
Damage: Claw 1d6+7, wing 1d4+3, bite 2d6+3 and poison, tail slap 2d4+3
Face/Reach: 5 ft by 5 ft/10 ft
Special Attacks: Improved grab, constrict 2d4+10
Speical Qualities: Baatezu qualities (fire/poison immunity and cold/acid resistance 20), regeneration 5
Saves: Fort +16, Relfex +14, Will +19
Abilities: Str 25, Dex 14, Con 21, Int 15, Wis 10, Cha 25
Skills: Exactly the same as me (except the ability modifiers may be different)
Feats: Exactly the same as me

Since Pit Fiends use equipment, I keep all of my magic items remain functional and I can cast spells normally.


Form #1 -- Nightshade, Nightwalker

Huge Undead
Hit Dice: 18d4 + 36 (91 hp) [*My understanding is that hp never change*]
Initiative: +2 (+2 Dex)
Speed: 40 ft, fly 20 ft (poor)
AC: 26 (-2 size, +2 Dex, +16 natural)
Attacks: 2 slams +19
Damage: Slam 2d6+12
Face/Reach: 10 ft by 10 ft/15 ft
Special Attacks: None
Speical Qualities: Nightshade abilities (cold immunity, acid/fire/electricity resist 50), undead
Saves: Fort +5, Relfex +7, Will +19
Abilities: Str 35, Dex 14, Con -, Int 15, Wis 10, Cha 25
Skills: Exactly the same as me (except the ability modifiers may be different)
Feats: Exactly the same as me

Since Nightshades don't use equipment, they are melded into my new form and become non-functional. Since my material component pouch is absorbed into my new form, I can only cast spells that have Verbal and/or Somatic components only.

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[gfunk]

*bumpity bump*

 

[ruleslawyer]

This is exactly correct. However, if you have the time, you should ditch your equipment before shape changing into the nightwalker (its form is still roughly humanoid, after all) and simply pick it up once you've transformed.

These are decent picks, BTW, but I would go with a planetar or solar if you can find one (or get a cleric buddy to summon one for you using greater planar ally). Better ability scores and some nifty (Ex) abilities go a long way.

 

[Dwarmaj]

I believe you'd only get a max of 2 attacks per round. The revised version of Poly Other (which includes shapechange), states that "A body with extra limbs does not allow a character to make more attacks than normal."

I believe shifters and druids are allowed to, but not through the use of Poly Self/Other or Shapechange.

Oh, and I'd be careful of shapechanging into undead. Since your type changes, the BBG may dicide to make you his new "friend".

 

[gfunk]

I believe you'd only get a max of 2 attacks per round. The revised version of Poly Other (which includes shapechange), states that "A body with extra limbs does not allow a character to make more attacks than normal."

I believe shifters and druids are allowed to, but not through the use of Poly Self/Other or Shapechange.

Oh, and I'd be careful of shapechanging into undead. Since your type changes, the BBG may dicide to make you his new "friend".

I did read the errata in T&B on Poly Other when I came up with the above stats. But I thought extra limbs referred to more appendages (either hands or tentacles) like from a Marilith or Kraken. In the case of Pit Fiend these extra attacks are from wings, fangs, and a tail. I'm not clear what the designers had in mind here.

BTW, good point about the BBG and undead. I plan on casting Negative Energy Wave (T&B) to boost my turn resistance by 1d4+7 so that he can't just rebuke me and get his buddies to beat the crap out of me while I'm in a fetal position.

 

[gfunk]

This is exactly correct. However, if you have the time, you should ditch your equipment before shape changing into the nightwalker (its form is still roughly humanoid, after all) and simply pick it up once you've transformed.

These are decent picks, BTW, but I would go with a planetar or solar if you can find one (or get a cleric buddy to summon one for you using greater planar ally). Better ability scores and some nifty (Ex) abilities go a long way.

The problem, IMO, with the first idea is that the Nightwalker is Huge whereas all my equipment is medium sized. So I guess I could use things like staves and such, but the Cloaks and stuff wouldn't fit. Also (more importantly) I don't really have anywhere I can put my material component pouch.

Great idea about the Greater Planar Ally!
I can see it now . . .

17th level cleric PC buddy summons Solar,

Solar: "My time is valuable mortal, what is your request?"
Cleric: "Um . . . just turn around a few times and strike a few poses."
Sorcerer: <Scribbling down notes and sketches>
Solar: "What is that guy doing?"
Cleric: "Oh, just admiring your perfect form and taking notes."
Solar: <blushing> "Ah . . . I just realized that I had to do a chore for Tyr, bye!"

Also, the cleric and myself have come up with a very nasty combo for situations where only melee beasts need apply.

Shapechange into a Storm Giant, get the Cleric to cast GMW on a greatsword (becomes +5) and Holy Sword (double damage vs CE), then cast Tenser's Transformation and start swinging.

I don't have the stats in front of me, but against CE, the attack/damage goes something like:

+40/+35/+30/+25

Dmg = 8d6 + 60

Avg damage against CE opponents (all attacks hit, no crits) = 352
Avg damage against all other opponents = 176

What happens to Sorcerer if Balor casts Greater Dispelling = +7/+2 for 2d6+3. OUCH!

 

[Shard O'Glase]

If you want to really piss off everyone, shapechange into a hummingbird then turn into a slab of grnaite 200' on a side.

seriously some of the inanimate object things can really be powerful, even the non-lame I drop on you for 6,000,000d6 things. You can change shape as a free aciton, so maybe turn into a wall of adamantite blocking attcks for your friends, or turn into a piece of equipment and cast silent/still spells from your companions hands, oh and lava is always fun..wait that's getting cheezy and lame again.

As a general rule I stick with the equipment users, great fun can be had with those.(solar is just obscene i thnk it has +27 natural armor)

 

[Dwarmaj]

Shapechange really needs a HD limit and a duration decrease. But then again I play a shifter and hate having my whole class simulated by a single spell.

 

[Xarlen]

Shapechange really needs a HD limit and a duration decrease. But then again I play a shifter and hate having my whole class simulated by a single spell.

Sort've like the MindBender and Dominate Person (or monster). The True Necromancer with a Cleric...

 

[Saeviomagy]

No, those other two you list get their spellcasting levels AS WELL AS class abilities.

The shifter just gets screwed.