I am playing around with the mechanics here...still getting used to it so bare with me. I want to play a fighter that has good crowd control. I was thinking of using Shield Push feat along with the at will power Tide of Iron. My goal doing this is to be able to push the enemy 2 squares instead of 1, as I can't see much point of just pushing 1 square. I feel I am really reaching here, but would both of those abilities stack? I doubt it would, but it would be sweet if somebody could clarify this for me..thanks
Shield pushing
- Thread starter Loestal
- Start date
They don't stack because they never intersect. Shield Push only functions on attacks granted by Combat Challenge. Combat Challenge allows you to make a melee basic attack. Tide of Iron is not a melee basic attack, it's an at-will attack power.
In the paragon tier you can pick up Spear Push if you use a spear, and that will stack with Tide of Iron.
In the paragon tier you can pick up Spear Push if you use a spear, and that will stack with Tide of Iron.
Kordeth is right.
Shield Push and Tide of Iron both push, but uses are different. Tide of Iron allows Fighter to take over an enemies spot in a melee, Shield Push is part of interupting an enemy's attack or shift with combat challenge.
If a marked enemy is trying to attack an ally, and you shield push the enemy into a square where he can't reach his original target, his attack automatically fails. The enemy still wastes it's action on an attack doomed to fail.
Shield Push and Tide of Iron both push, but uses are different. Tide of Iron allows Fighter to take over an enemies spot in a melee, Shield Push is part of interupting an enemy's attack or shift with combat challenge.
If a marked enemy is trying to attack an ally, and you shield push the enemy into a square where he can't reach his original target, his attack automatically fails. The enemy still wastes it's action on an attack doomed to fail.
I don't really get why a Fighter would want to be able to push. Push only causes enemies to move away from you, when your goal should be to get as many into melee as possible. The only good use I can think of is to push them into a hazard, and other classes can do this better than the Fighter.
The build I'm working on will use Come and Get It and later Warrior's Urging to gather up enemies and mark them all. I'll also take the Swordmaster paragon path for Steel Blitz which gives me those powers back after a crit, and other AoE powers like Cruel Reaper and the reusable Crescendo Sword to improve my chance to crit (and let me mark lots of guys). Finally I'll double my crit chance at level 21 with Heavy Blade Mastery.
In this way I'm hoping to make a fighter that truely can control a crowd, not just a single monster.
BeauNiddle
First Post
Tide of Iron allows you to follow up on the push so the enemy never leaves combat range. (it's almost like a free shift for fighters)
Other advantages of push are to group enemies for casters or into hazards (as you mentioned) Other classes might do it better but there is no reason for you to not have the ability as well
Finally you might want to disengage for some reason (move to a better location, get healing, run away) and push can be useful for that.
You might not be pushing every round or even every encounter but pushes are still useful for fighters.
icarusfallz
First Post
Pushing is also very useful to for the fighter that wants to get into the thick of things (surrounding himself with baddies by pushing into their ranks to unleash Sweeping Blow) or to push THROUGH the ranks (TO put a Villain's Menace on the BBEG!)
Shield Push is fantastic. Even though monsters know all the effects that you do to them, they don't know your abilities. A strong monster may be willing to ignore a mark for a squishier target but if you can push them out of range it effectively negates their attack. If you cannot push them out of range it allows you to maneuver them at least.
One question about this though. Suppose a marked enemy tries to shift. I interrupt it (enemy is still in its original square) and I shield push it back a square. Can it still shift (say back to the original square) or was their shift move "wasted" like an attack that cannot reach is?
One question about this though. Suppose a marked enemy tries to shift. I interrupt it (enemy is still in its original square) and I shield push it back a square. Can it still shift (say back to the original square) or was their shift move "wasted" like an attack that cannot reach is?
Combat Challenge doesn't halt movement, so the shift would complete--IMO, that means the critter would shift in the same direction it originally tried to shift, relative to the square it was pushed into.
The reason I asked is do you declare what square you are shifting to or what direction you are shifting? Further do you have to declare these before the fighter gets his attack? Since an immediate interrupt interrupts the action and occurs BEFORE the action does, I'd assume you WOULD know where the creature wanted to shift. Now if the shift is considered "Move from A to B" then it would in fact be invalid once pushed. However if a shift is "Move one square in any direction" it is NOT invalid once pushed and it could "continue".
The "it has to move the same direction" makes sense as a sort of intuitive rule, but I'd like to know if this was just a reasonable assumption or if it was based on a rule.
Danceofmasks
First Post
The square it was shifting to must be declared.
Keeping 'inertia' instead will lead to interesting side effects that can be potentially abused.
Mob wants to shift back 1. You push it 1 square diagonally. It now has to shift off a cliff .. and since shifting is not forced movement, there's no save.
Keeping 'inertia' instead will lead to interesting side effects that can be potentially abused.
Mob wants to shift back 1. You push it 1 square diagonally. It now has to shift off a cliff .. and since shifting is not forced movement, there's no save.
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