Shifty v/ CC: Who Wins?

[Oldtimer]

It could be argued that in D&D terms, retrying the interrupted statement could be a new, separate action. Still, if native English speakers understand it without ambiguity, then my bad.

I'm not a native English speaker, but I know that it can be interpreted either way:

in·ter·rupt
v. tr.

1. To break the continuity or uniformity of: Rain interrupted our baseball game.
2. To hinder or stop the action or discourse of (someone) by breaking in on: The baby interrupted me while I was on the phone.

We all assume it's used in the non-stopping sense in the rules.

 

[Surgoshan]

In a realism sense, the immediate action doesn't stop the shift. It just occurs during the shift and happens before the shift has resolved. So a kobold takes a shifty step back and the fighter bitch-slaps him. End of story.

In a game mechanic sense, the kobold declares the shift and the action begins. The fighter takes his immediate action to attack during the kobold's shift. The attack resolves. The kobold, if it's still alive, then completes its shift. End of story.

 

[The Little Raven]

Combat Challenge (when an adjacent enemy shifts, make an immediate melee basic attack against them.

Combat Superiority (+2 to opportunity attacks and enemies hit stop moving if a move provoked the attack.

Combat Superiority is about opportunity attacks, which Combat Challenge does not grant. The only way I can see someone interpreting that differently is if they assume the second reference to attack in Combat Superiority isn't referring to opportunity attacks, but that's silly.

 

[thatdarnedbob]

I ran a playtest for the first tonight, with others who had no actual experience with 4E, and this exact question came up. However we noticed the difference in wording between CC and CS in about 5 seconds and got on with the fight. Seriously it's not that hard.

 

[hong]

It's a fine distinction but an important one between combat challenge, combat superiority, immediate melee attack and opportunity attack. The guy who was playing the fighter in my session kept getting them mixed up, and had to be corrected by the resident rules lawyer.

 

[LostSoul]

If you are willing to accept that the ability works as written, often nothing. But read the Goblin Picador thread if you need an example of why a rule as written is going to cause problems. The rule as written says that a 100 pound goblin picador that hits stops a 32 str barbarian or a 50000 pound dragon from going anywhere.

So, in other words:

If you are willing to accept the rules, they will work just fine.

If you are not willing to accept the rules, then you'll have problems.


I don't see how any game could possibly get around this issue.

 

[Cactot]

alright, get this:

but what happens if you have a kobold fighter?!?

OMG, did i just blow your mind??

 

[small pumpkin man]

alright, get this:

but what happens if you have a kobold fighter?!?

OMG, did i just blow your mind??

No, because it doesn't change anything....

 

[Cactot]

i realize, was just being a smartass =D though it does seem like it would be an awesome combination. Great racial ability combined with a good class feature

though as far as the serious discussion is concerned, it doesnt seem like there should be any question as to what the rules would indicate. There is no text in the kobolds ability that indicate that it is exempt from special powers/abilities of other classes therefore there is no reason it would not be affected by the fighter power.

 

[Dausuul]

It's a fine distinction but an important one between combat challenge, combat superiority, immediate melee attack and opportunity attack. The guy who was playing the fighter in my session kept getting them mixed up, and had to be corrected by the resident rules lawyer.

That's the problem with mechanics that look very very similar but aren't actually the same... the combat challenge ability behaves so much like an opportunity attack that people are bound to get the two mixed up. WotC should probably have thought that one out more carefully. Still and all, not a big deal.