Shocking Grasp -- Critical Hit

[Magic Slim]

Critical Hits: When you make an attack roll and get a natural 20 (the d20 shows 20), you hit regardless of your target’s Armor Class, and you have scored a threat. The hit might be a critical hit (or “crit”). To find out if it’s a critical hit, you immediately make a critical roll—another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll you just made. If the critical roll also results in a hit against the target’s AC, your original hit is a critical hit. (The critical roll just needs to hit to give you a crit. It doesn’t need to come up 20 again.) If the critical roll is a miss, then your hit is just a regular hit.
A critical hit means that you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls together. Unless otherwise specified, the threat range for a critical hit on an attack roll is 20, and the multiplier is x2.
Exception: Extra damage over and above a weapon’s normal damage is not multiplied when you score a critical hit.
Spells and Critical Hits: A spell that requires an attack roll can score a critical hit. A spell attack that requires no attack roll cannot score a critical hit.

(emphasis mine)

IMO:
(ack i'll edit it later my boss is coming)
(ok she's gone, or rather I am)
I'd do it as Bozidar said right below me...

Eryndel: the Improved Critical feat applies both to the melee touch attack and melee attack, so, yes, it would be a critical threat if the character in question rolled a 19.

Slim

 

[Bozidar]

Thanks slim, that clears it up

If you do a touch attack to use a ring of shocking grasp, then your crit will multiply the shocking grasp damage

If you do an attack, flurry or whatever, then the damage applied to a critical is only that of your unarmed strike, not the spell.

 

[Caliban]

(emphasis mine)

IMO:
(ack i'll edit it later my boss is coming)
(ok she's gone, or rather I am)
I'd do it as Bozidar said right below me...

Eryndel: the Improved Critical feat applies both to the melee touch attack and melee attack, so, yes, it would be a critical threat if the character in question rolled a 19.

Slim

No, it doesn't apply to both. Making a touch attack is not the same thing as making an Unarmed Strike. (Just like Unarmed Strike is different from a Grapple.)

Improved Critical (Touch Spell) applies to melee touch spells, and Improved Critical (Unarmed Strike) applies to the unarmed strikes.

If you used an Unarmed Strike to deliver the touch spell, you could use Improved Critical (Unarmed Strike) and crit on a 19-20.

If you did a normal touch attack, Improved Critical (Unarmed Strike) would not apply.

 

[Magic Slim]

No, it doesn't apply to both. Making a touch attack is not the same thing as making an Unarmed Strike. (Just like Unarmed Strike is different from a Grapple.)

Improved Critical (Touch Spell) applies to melee touch spells, and Improved Critical (Unarmed Strike) applies to the unarmed strikes.

If you used an Unarmed Strike to deliver the touch spell, you could use Improved Critical (Unarmed Strike) and crit on a 19-20.

If you did a normal touch attack, Improved Critical (Unarmed Strike) would not apply.

For my personal knowledge, would you please post a reference to this?

Thanks

edit: the passage that supported my "theory" is found in the Weapon Focus feat:

Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for purposes of this feat.

Unarmed strike <> Grapple, I understand that, but touching someone and Striking someone with one's fist pretty much requires the same set of abilities, IMO...

Slim

 

[Caliban]

For my personal knowledge, would you please post a reference to this?

Thanks

You actually provided it yourself.

edit: the passage that supported my "theory" is found in the Weapon Focus feat:

I don't see how it supports your theory.

Unarmed strike <> Grapple, I understand that, but touching someone and Striking someone with one's fist pretty much requires the same set of abilities, IMO...

Slim

Not really. One requires you to actually hit them with a forceful blow, the other does not.

They are different enough to require different feats, just as a longsword is different from a shortsword, or a longbow is different from a short bow, or a grapple is different from an unarmed strike.

They may not seem very different, but then how different is a longsword, shortsword, scimitar, or rapier?

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Unarmed strike <> Grapple, I understand that, but touching someone and Striking someone with one's fist pretty much requires the same set of abilities, IMO...

You're right. But, on the other hand, hitting something with a morning star and hitting something with a mace also requires quite a similar set of abilities, and still you need different feats when you want to focus on them....

 

[Magic Slim]

You actually provided it yourself.

Actually, the quote differenciates Unarmed Strike from Grapple from Ray. It doesn't differenciate Unarmed Strike from Touch attack.

But I can understand that my reasoning is wrong. A monk doesn't have to use his hands to make an Unarmed Strike, whereas a melee touch attack pretty much requires that you touch with your hand (unless you cast shocking grasp on your knee?).

1000 apologies.

Slim

 

[Magic Slim]

I kindly retract my apologies.

When making a trip attempt with a spiked chain (for example), you need to make a melee touch attack with said spiked chain. If you had Weapon Focus (Spiked chain), would you apply your bonus to your melee touch attack? I know I would. Replace "spiked chain" with "unarmed strike".

Slim

 

[Caliban]

I kindly retract my apologies.

When making a trip attempt with a spiked chain (for example), you need to make a melee touch attack with said spiked chain. If you had Weapon Focus (Spiked chain), would you apply your bonus to your melee touch attack? I know I would. Replace "spiked chain" with "unarmed strike".

Slim

Sure, if you use an Unarmed strike to make a trip attack. That's not what we are talking about here.

You can't use an unarmed strike to make a spell touch attack. You use the spell to do that. You can use an Unarmed Strike to make an normal melee attack and have the spell delivered along with it, but it's not a touch attack at that point.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I kindly retract my apologies.

Tome and Blood, on the subject of applying feats to Weaponlike Spells, states:

Weapon Focus: Choose one category of weaponlike spell (ray, energy missile, or touch spell).

p38.

-Hyp.