Shooting into Melee

[JacktheRabbit]

Ok, you get a -4 to hi if you are shooting at someone in melee combat. That makes perfect sense to me since you dont want to accidentally hit your comrad in arms who is in melee.

But....

What if the archer in question doesnt care if he hits the other guy or not?

What if he doesnt even care which one of the melee targets he hits at all?

Would you as a DM drop the -4 to hit and instead make the archer make instead a random roll to see which of the meleeing individuals gets shot?

Also what abot large size difference? If my dwarven fighter is in melee with a Cloud Giant that is 5 times his height I fail to see how my elven archer buddy is going to get a -4 to shoot. Unless of course the archer just demands to shoot at the giants ankles.

 

[Thanee]

The first one makes sense to me. Just shoot without penalties and then randomly determine who is hit (keep size in mind to allocate chances).

The latter, I think, is covered in the rules. If there is a sizeable portion of the target far enough away from the area where the fight takes place, then you can hit them with no penalty.

Bye
Thanee

 

[HeavyG]

Also what abot large size difference? If my dwarven fighter is in melee with a Cloud Giant that is 5 times his height I fail to see how my elven archer buddy is going to get a -4 to shoot. Unless of course the archer just demands to shoot at the giants ankles.

That one is simple. Shooting in melee is not about cover. There's a separate modifier for that, if dwarf is between the archer and the giant. That modifier will be smaller in the case that you mentioned than if the dwarf was fighting a human.

Also, you can't shoot your friend if you're firing in a melee, only if you fire through cover.

And precise shot removes the firing into a melee penalty but not the cover penalty.

Lastly, even if the giant is in melee with the dwarf, you don't suffer the penalty if they're at least 10' apart (could happen because the giant has reach).

Examples :

a) Your friend the dwarf is engaged in melee with a human (both size M).

If the dwarf is between the archer and the human, the archer suffers : -4 for fire in to melee and the human has a +4 to AC for 50% cover, for a total of -8 to hit. If he misses because of the cover, he hits the dwarf. Note if he has the Precise Shot feat, the -4 to hit is negated but not the +4 to the human's AC.

If the dwarf is on the other side of the human, the archer gets only the -4 to hit for firing into a melee. He has no penalty if he has Precise Shot and has no chance of hitting the dwarf period, whether he has the feat or not.

b) If the dwarf is fighting a giant.

If the dwarf is between the archer and the giant, the archer suffers : -4 for fire in to melee and the giant has a +2 to AC for 1/4 cover, for a total of -6 to hit. If he misses because of the cover, he hits the dwarf. Note if he has the Precise Shot feat, the -4 to hit is negated but not the +2 to the giant's AC.

If the dwarf is on the other side of the giant, the archer gets only the -4 to hit for firing into a melee. He has no penalty if he has Precise Shot and has no chance of hitting the dwarf period, whether he has the feat or not.

Okay, so maybe it's not that simple.

 

[candidus_cogitens]

There is a variant rule in the DMG, which I highly recommend. It works very well, and is not as cumbersome as it might seem at first. It turns out to be a little more favorable to archers, but not in a way that is unbalancing, IMO. Also, I would say that this variant rule is a lot more realistic, because it allows for some possibility of hitting your ally, even if he is not providing cover. (The danger, however, is not terribly great in comparison to the advantage of not having the -4 penalty!)

This question is particularly apropo if you use a whip. A whip does no damage to anyone wearing armor of any kind. So, if your buddy the paladin is standing next to your target, you really don't have to worry about hitting him because he won't care!