Short Rest Classes

[Xeviat]

Hello everyone. To aid the narrative of my games, for pacing, for party balance, and for poops and giggles, I'd like to tweak the classes of 5E to all (mostly) work off the short rest. I believe if everyone works off the short rest, it will be easier to keep balance within the party, and the DM won't have to worry about stretching an adventuring day long or keeping it short. If the story calls for a short day, a long rest focused character can wreck house by using all of their high level abilities. In a long day, a long rest character will put the breaks on a party.

By having everyone on the same timer, a day can follow the pace of a story without affecting balance.

I'm starting my thinking by looking at the Warlock. When you convert Warlock slots to spell points, and assume two short rests per long, the Warlock spell points are very close to a Wizard's spell points. Interestingly, a Monk's ki point pool is very close to said Warlock's and 1/3rd Wizard's spell point pool (leading me to think of the Monk as a half caster).

But I haven't gotten to see a Warlock or the Spell Point system in action. How do you think giving all spellcasters (including half and one-third spellcasters) will change the game? I suspect that it would lead to full healing on short rests, or at least groups taking two hour rests to recover all healing. This could be countered other ways (ways which just popped into my head!). Short rest healing concerned me, but bardlocks and the Healer feat already allow for that.

Spell points don't need to be used. The warlock progression already limits high level spells. Would other classes need invocations, or do the wizard's rituals and the cleric's channel divinities spread out enough magic?


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[mellored]

IMO: Twice per day, anyone can use an action to gain the benefits of a short rest.

Otherwise just let some characters shine on certain days.

 

[Tony Vargas]

By having everyone on the same timer, a day can follow the pace of a story without affecting balance.

I'm starting my thinking by looking at the Warlock. ... How do you think giving all spellcasters (including half and one-third spellcasters) will change the game? I suspect that it would lead to full healing on short rests, or at least groups taking two hour rests to recover all healing.

So you're concerned a party that's out of HD might take a Short Rest, use all their slots for cure spells, then take another short rest?

 

[Xeviat]

So you're concerned a party that's out of HD might take a Short Rest, use all their slots for cure spells, then take another short rest?

I'm not sure if concerned is the right word. Assuming? Preparing? Short rest healing is limited in 5E, but it exists. Then again, healing potions are dirt cheep so a prepared group could easily be fully healed after every fight. Just making that assumption and basing new guidelines off that might be smarter. Healing would then be for in combat.

I could make an injury system or redefine hit dice if I wanted to change it.


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[Horwath]

1st off, short rest is not that short. In tactical sense, If you can get 1hr opening for rest in 90% of situation you can stretch that to 8hrs.

Short rest should be 5-15 mins. In most sports pauze between parts of the game is in that range.

You could limit the number of short rests to 2 or 3 per day. After that you're too beat and need a good solid rest.

2nd, some spells, features are too powerfull for usage once per encounter cause they make encounter very easy. That's why you can use it on only one encounter per day.

Imagine 5th level wizard that can afford 3 short rests per day. that is 8 fireballs per day. If they go 2 encounters then rest, that is a fireball per encounter. You would need hell of alot mooks to challenge then in any fight if they can all go beserk with spells.

 

[Xeviat]

Imagine 5th level wizard that can afford 3 short rests per day. that is 8 fireballs per day. If they go 2 encounters then rest, that is a fireball per encounter. You would need hell of alot mooks to challenge then in any fight if they can all go beserk with spells.

Some warlocks can already do 6 fireballs a day at 5th level.

I'd probably drop the short rests down to 15 minutes if I also changed assumptions to a rest after every fight. I think 3 hard fights a day would be easier to pace, and a gauntlet of easy fights with no rest between them would be different every now and then.


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[Horwath]

Some warlocks can already do 6 fireballs a day at 5th level.

I'd probably drop the short rests down to 15 minutes if I also changed assumptions to a rest after every fight. I think 3 hard fights a day would be easier to pace, and a gauntlet of easy fights with no rest between them would be different every now and then.


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Yes, that is true about warlocks. but they have just eldritch blast after that. Wizards still have 3 2nd lvl slots and 4 1st lvl.

 

[Xeviat]

Yes, that is true about warlocks. but they have just eldritch blast after that. Wizards still have 3 2nd lvl slots and 4 1st lvl.

I think you misunderstood. I'm not thinking of giving casters short rest recovery and their current spell slot progression. I'm thinking of either giving them all the warlock progression or using Spell Points and dividing the total by 3.


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[Flamestrike]

Converting all classes to long rest is the easiest. Simply multiply all short rest resources by 3. Fighters get 3 action surges per long rest. Monks get level x 3 Ki points per long rest. Druids get 6 x wild shapes. And so forth.

Going about it the other way is more problematic. Spells can be managed by making every caster use Warlock mechanics, but a lot of other long rest abilities are 1/ long rest making them really hard to break down further.

 

[Xeviat]

Converting all classes to long rest is the easiest. Simply multiply all short rest resources by 3. Fighters get 3 action surges per long rest. Monks get level x 3 Ki points per long rest. Druids get 6 x wild shapes. And so forth.

Going about it the other way is more problematic. Spells can be managed by making every caster use Warlock mechanics, but a lot of other long rest abilities are 1/ long rest making them really hard to break down further.

The occasional 1/long ability is fine. 4E had daily powers. They're interesting. But when the bulk of your power is locked up in them, it means it is advantageous to Nova if you have a giant fight first thing in the morning.

Yes, the DM can avoid that. Yes, a party of adventurers trying to get through a fixed dungeon level in one day, tracking their resources, is part of the spirit of the game.

Switching everything to long rest is an interesting solution. Everything on long rest, plus a hard expectation of "if we back out of the dungeon, or loligag, we lose. But I think that may feel more gamist. Taking a 15 minute breather to refresh your abilities feels "realistic".


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