Shot on the run question

[silentspace]

great explanation, thanks!

 

[Artoomis]

Manyshot is a standard action.
...Since Manyshot is its own standard action, not the attack action, it cannot be used in conjunction with Shot on the Run.

-Hyp.

Is "the attack action" truly a defined term?

From the PHB (also in the SRD, I think):

Standard Actions:

"Most standard actions involve making an attack..."

Attack:

"Making an attack is a standard action."

Manyshot:

"As a standard action, you may fire... arrows... us(ing) the same attack roll."

Hmmm.... looks like Manyshot would be okay to me. What am I missing?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Is "the attack action" truly a defined term?

Yes.

The section you quoted ("Making an attack is a standard action") is from the definition of the Attack action.

It's the standard action, Attack.

Just like the full round action, Full Attack, is known as "the Full Attack action", and the full round action, "Charge", is known as "the Charge action", the standard action, "Attack", is known as "the Attack action", and is referred to in the text of such feats as Combat Expertise, Spring Attack, and Shot on the Run.

-Hyp.

 

[Artoomis]

Yes.

The section you quoted ("Making an attack is a standard action") is from the definition of the Attack action.

It's the standard action, Attack.

Just like the full round action, Full Attack, is known as "the Full Attack action", and the full round action, "Charge", is known as "the Charge action", the standard action, "Attack", is known as "the Attack action", and is referred to in the text of such feats as Combat Expertise, Spring Attack, and Shot on the Run.

-Hyp.

Okay, so it's an undefined term that is used to represent the standard action, attack.

That looks an awful lot like what happens with the Manyshot feat. You take one shot with one attack roll with many arrows. That looks an awful lot like a specialized "attack action" to me.

I'd allow it to work with "Shot on the Run." I guess you wouldn't.

 

[Hypersmurf]

That looks an awful lot like what happens with the Manyshot feat. You take one shot with one attack roll with many arrows. That looks an awful lot like a specialized "attack action" to me.

It's a Manyshot action.

Casting Ray of Frost uses one attack roll to make a ranged attack as a standard action.

That doesn't mean it's the Attack action; it's the Cast a Spell action.

I'd allow it to work with "Shot on the Run." I guess you wouldn't.

Nor Andy Collins, the author of the feat. Nor Skip Williams. Nor the FAQ.

Some feats say "When you take the attack action, you can..." or "When you take the full attack action, you can..."

Manyshot doesn't. It says "As a standard action". It's its own standard action; it doesn't use the attack action.

-Hyp.

 

[Artoomis]

It's a Manyshot action.

Casting Ray of Frost uses one attack roll to make a ranged attack as a standard action.

That doesn't mean it's the Attack action; it's the Cast a Spell action.



Nor Andy Collins, the author of the feat. Nor Skip Williams. Nor the FAQ.

Some feats say "When you take the attack action, you can..." or "When you take the full attack action, you can..."

Manyshot doesn't. It says "As a standard action". It's its own standard action; it doesn't use the attack action.

-Hyp.

Well, the FAQ is on your side, it seems. Ah, well.

 

[Falling Icicle]

Since Manyshot is its own standard action, not the attack action, it cannot be used in conjunction with Shot on the Run.

Well, if you are correct, you basically took away the one and only good use I have ever found for Manyshot. What a worthless, pointlessly nerfed feat.

 

[Artoomis]

Well, if you are correct, you basically took away the one and only good use I have ever found for Manyshot. What a worthless, pointlessly nerfed feat.

According to the FAQ he's right.

Is it possible to use the Shot on the Run feat in conjunction with the Manyshot feat? Some people I know insist that you must use the attack action with Shot on the Run, and they further claim that Manyshot is a standard action and not the attack action. But there isn’t any such thing as an attack action, is there? The text on actions in Chapter 8 of the Player’s Handbook (page 138) describes many kinds of actions (standard actions, move actions, full-round actions, and free actions); it even describes things that are not actions and mentions restricted activity. Nowhere, however, do the rules describe attack actions. So, what’s the correct answer?

No, you cannot use Shot on the Run and Manyshot together. It is true that there is no category of actions called “attack actions” in the D&D game, but there is an action called attack—it’s the first action described under Standard Actions on page 139 in the Player’s Handbook. It might seem that the folks who say no Manyshot with Shot On the Run are slicing the baloney a little thin, but the letter of the rules is on their side, and so is the intent behind the letter of the rules. The Manyshot feat description could say you fire multiple arrows with the attack action, but it doesn’t.

Manyshot is a standard action, not a variant on the attack action (see the feat description on page 97 in the Player’s Handbook). Likewise, the Shot on the Run feat could allow you to make any kind of ranged attack while moving, but it doesn’t. When using Shot on the Run, you must use the attack action with a ranged weapon (see the feat description on page 100 in the
Player’s Handbook). This rules out using spells, most magic items, or special standard actions such as the Manyshot feat when making a Shot on the Run. That’s because casting a spell would require the cast a spell action (described on page 140 of the Player’s Handbook), using any magic item except for some use-activated items would require the activate magic item
action (Player’s Handbook, page 142), and, as already noted here, using the Manyshot feat is a standard action. Most magic weapons are use activated and don’t require any action to activate at all (see page 213 in the Dungeon Master’s Guide), so you can use these weapons along with the attack action. For example, you could use a +1 longbow or +1 arrow (or both) with the attack action, and thus you also could use these items with Shot on the Run.

 

[Camarath]

Is "the attack action" truly a defined term?

Look under ACTIONS IN COMBAT then under the heading Attack what is expanded on under that heading is what is refered to as an Attack Action. This is that same as what is expanded on under the Full Attack heading is a Full Attack Action. I believe that each heading in the Actions in Combat and Special Attacks sections is its own action such that is it called a Heading Action.

 

[Spatula]

Well, if you are correct, you basically took away the one and only good use I have ever found for Manyshot. What a worthless, pointlessly nerfed feat.

You can't use Rapid Shot in a surprise round. Nor with a readied action. Nor can you reposition yourself more than 5' and use Rapid Shot. Manyshot is not worthless.