Shotgun Houserules...
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Shadowlord
Member
And what may these be?Kesh said:
I thought of something like this:
Shotguns dealing +2 damage dice at short range, starting in the 1st range increment, and then losing one damage die per increment up to minimum of one damage die? Shotguns have a max of 5 range increments.
So, you’d deal more damage in the first two increments, less damage in the final two, and equal in the middle (third increment). That seems balanced.
Maybe add a feat that allows for a small cone, or a shell that allows it.
Did I miss something or isn't there any normal shotgun (for hunting) that has only a single shot, or a magazine with 2 bullets??
What about a burst shotgun like the CAWS ?
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Doc_Souark
Explorer
Ken Hood's shotgun rules is what I use, unfortinaly I don't have the link
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad
Ken Hoods rule:
http://www.darkshire.org/~jhkim/rpg/srd/sleepingimperium/items/itm_gunbasic.htm
Shotgun, Hogshead. A double or single-barrel shotgun with the barrel sawed-off to a foot or less in length. These weapons deal 3d6 points of damage to a target in the first range increment, 2d6 in the second range increment, and 1d6 to anyone in a five foot path up to x5 range increments distant. An attack roll is only necessary to hit targets within the first range increment. From x2 range increments and out, critical hits are not possible and targets get a Reflexes v. DC 15 save for ½ damage.
Shotgun. A double or single-barrel shotgun. These weapons deal 3d6 points of damage to a target in the first range increment, 2d6 in the second range increment, and 1d6 to anyone in a five foot path up to x5 range increments distant. An attack roll is only necessary to hit targets within the first range increment. From x2 range increments and out, critical hits are not possible and targets get a Reflexes v. DC 15 save for ½ damage.
Of course, his rule is totally devoid of any relationship to reality. It is a complete and total myth that shotguns shoot in a large cone effect. You might as well make all shotguns magical - since that is just as logical as making a cone effect 5 feet wide for shot guns.
http://www.darkshire.org/~jhkim/rpg/srd/sleepingimperium/items/itm_gunbasic.htm
Shotgun, Hogshead. A double or single-barrel shotgun with the barrel sawed-off to a foot or less in length. These weapons deal 3d6 points of damage to a target in the first range increment, 2d6 in the second range increment, and 1d6 to anyone in a five foot path up to x5 range increments distant. An attack roll is only necessary to hit targets within the first range increment. From x2 range increments and out, critical hits are not possible and targets get a Reflexes v. DC 15 save for ½ damage.
Shotgun. A double or single-barrel shotgun. These weapons deal 3d6 points of damage to a target in the first range increment, 2d6 in the second range increment, and 1d6 to anyone in a five foot path up to x5 range increments distant. An attack roll is only necessary to hit targets within the first range increment. From x2 range increments and out, critical hits are not possible and targets get a Reflexes v. DC 15 save for ½ damage.
Of course, his rule is totally devoid of any relationship to reality. It is a complete and total myth that shotguns shoot in a large cone effect. You might as well make all shotguns magical - since that is just as logical as making a cone effect 5 feet wide for shot guns.
Albert_Fish
First Post
Ok, we need to use Ken Hood's Grim-n-Gritty rules.
Get them if you dotnhave them. They are far more realistic than any other gun rule si have seen to date.
Short of having such rules lets assume you have 3 types of shotgun shells ( excepting the more bizarre flechette, , bola or phosphorous rounds)
Solid shot (slug)
Heavy shot (turkeyload and buckshot)
Light Shot ( anything for small game hunting particularly squab or squirrel)
Solid shot. These slugs are HUGE...i dug one out of the ground....it was the size of a half dollar ( out of a twelve guage). This should do more damage than any other single civilian weapon. it should also havea terrible range increment ( a ball of lead has horrible flight dynamics). Also its not really tracable as far as balistics go. ( hint, hint) By the way, most shot gun shot is untraceable . Plus these things would tend to knock you flat onyour butt if they did not kil you outright.
Heavy Shot
This stuff is big...real big. Its usually worse than the slug. But It tends to spread plus lacks the *punch* of a Slug. Earlier posters are right. Even with an open choke the spread will never be very big ( atleast at any effective range) What i would do is assume a shot gun blast have a 5 foot "stream" ( like a Black dragons Breath) giving the first target the normal chance to hit ( minus range) and each subsequent target an additional + 2 to AC
Light Shot
Tiny little pellets. Good for Sheat. Worthless vs a human being ( well not worthless but why would you use it ? Good God man, do you want to hear your victim screaming and moaning for minutes as he writhes and heaves afer you unload your tubular magazine into his body? Sick bastard...)
But i would give this a wider area of effect ( that is how it was designed anyhow, to hit fast , maneuverable prey) Say 5 foot "stream" for the first 5 feet then 10 foot pattern ( just pick a line of squares on the side of your target square) with the same penalties outlined above.
If you want the cone effect...go fora sawed off shot gun. If sawed off Very, VERY close to the chamber then you basically will have a cloud of lead belched in front of you every time you pull the trigger. Don't count on any range.
Then there are the Shotguns that make it al worthwile...such as the Stryker 12 ( if you like shot guns chekc this out!) its compact, fully automatic, and has no kick ( it can be fired with one hand).
Get them if you dotnhave them. They are far more realistic than any other gun rule si have seen to date.
Short of having such rules lets assume you have 3 types of shotgun shells ( excepting the more bizarre flechette, , bola or phosphorous rounds)
Solid shot (slug)
Heavy shot (turkeyload and buckshot)
Light Shot ( anything for small game hunting particularly squab or squirrel)
Solid shot. These slugs are HUGE...i dug one out of the ground....it was the size of a half dollar ( out of a twelve guage). This should do more damage than any other single civilian weapon. it should also havea terrible range increment ( a ball of lead has horrible flight dynamics). Also its not really tracable as far as balistics go. ( hint, hint) By the way, most shot gun shot is untraceable . Plus these things would tend to knock you flat onyour butt if they did not kil you outright.
Heavy Shot
This stuff is big...real big. Its usually worse than the slug. But It tends to spread plus lacks the *punch* of a Slug. Earlier posters are right. Even with an open choke the spread will never be very big ( atleast at any effective range) What i would do is assume a shot gun blast have a 5 foot "stream" ( like a Black dragons Breath) giving the first target the normal chance to hit ( minus range) and each subsequent target an additional + 2 to AC
Light Shot
Tiny little pellets. Good for Sheat. Worthless vs a human being ( well not worthless but why would you use it ? Good God man, do you want to hear your victim screaming and moaning for minutes as he writhes and heaves afer you unload your tubular magazine into his body? Sick bastard...)
But i would give this a wider area of effect ( that is how it was designed anyhow, to hit fast , maneuverable prey) Say 5 foot "stream" for the first 5 feet then 10 foot pattern ( just pick a line of squares on the side of your target square) with the same penalties outlined above.
If you want the cone effect...go fora sawed off shot gun. If sawed off Very, VERY close to the chamber then you basically will have a cloud of lead belched in front of you every time you pull the trigger. Don't count on any range.
Then there are the Shotguns that make it al worthwile...such as the Stryker 12 ( if you like shot guns chekc this out!) its compact, fully automatic, and has no kick ( it can be fired with one hand).
Shadowlord
Member
Where's the Jackhammer and such?
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
Albert fish - believe it or not, the size of a round is unlikely to have a direct effect on the damage done by a round. Large size=low velocity=low energy.
Furthermore the size of the round limits the penetration. According to the FBI's study on the 'stopping power' of firearms, the primary factor in 'stopping power' is penetration of the round, followed distantly by the size of the wound channel.
Large rounds make a mess, that's to be sure, but they tend to be unable to penetrate to vital organs, which is what incapacitates your opponent.
Finally, contrary to opinion, there isn't enough energy transferred from a shot to a human being to knock them flat. If there was, then the shooter would be knocked flat as well. It's simple physics. People tend to fall down when they're shot due to psychological factors - they've seen the movies, they realise they've been shot, and people fall down when they're shot, so they fall down.
Furthermore the size of the round limits the penetration. According to the FBI's study on the 'stopping power' of firearms, the primary factor in 'stopping power' is penetration of the round, followed distantly by the size of the wound channel.
Large rounds make a mess, that's to be sure, but they tend to be unable to penetrate to vital organs, which is what incapacitates your opponent.
Finally, contrary to opinion, there isn't enough energy transferred from a shot to a human being to knock them flat. If there was, then the shooter would be knocked flat as well. It's simple physics. People tend to fall down when they're shot due to psychological factors - they've seen the movies, they realise they've been shot, and people fall down when they're shot, so they fall down.
Albert_Fish
First Post
Fire a slug into a 2x4 then fire a .306 into that same board. Notice the damage difference. Sure if you wanta quick clean kill go for a hunting rifle. But Massive tissue damage is just as good as penetrating the spleen for a take down ( of human beings in any case, who tend to react to damage far differently that animals). You are right though. The ball of lead would do less damage over a distance.....with every range increment just subtract 2 points of damage along with the penalty to hit. ( min one point of damage).
You could also give a penalty to penetrate armour
wow this is getting complex.
Most large caliber guns would knock you on your ass if it were not for recoil systems. But you also have to be aware thatyou are prepared for the recoil..the target is not prepared for the bullet.
You could also give a penalty to penetrate armour
wow this is getting complex.
Most large caliber guns would knock you on your ass if it were not for recoil systems. But you also have to be aware thatyou are prepared for the recoil..the target is not prepared for the bullet.
