D&D (2024) Should 2014 Half Elves and Half Orcs be added to the 2025 SRD?

[Yaarel]

Which is why I would suggest that you either just play Level Up and get off the WotC train altogether (the best solution IMO) or at least replace WotC's species and background with A5e's origin system (heritage, culture, background, destiny). No need to wait ten years for WotC to maybe "fix" the issue (said fix being unlikely to satisfy anyone in any case).

(I agree it is mistake to "wait" on WotC. It is a mistake that I have tended to make in the past. But I have come to appreciate the importance, legitimacy, and necessity of indy publishers. If indies have something that DMs and players want, there is every good reason to utilize it.)


I am less familiar with LevelUp. As far as I can tell, 5e 2024 and a5e LevelUp are doing something similar.

For LevelUp, mechanics aside, the Culture and Background categories look similar to me. Both offer similar narrative identities (such as Aeronaut background and Airship Crew culture). Both categories can grant proficiencies and feat-like benefits.

For 5e 2024, there is the background with proficiencies and feat within a narrative context.


We havent seen it yet, but there can be an "Eladrin background", meaning proficiencies and feat that one acquires from experiences that are typical growing up within an Eladrin culture. Just like a Human culture can offer multiple backgrounds − Farmer, Soldier, Merchant, etcetera − an Eladrin culture can likewise offer multiple backgrounds − Wizard Army, Supertower Architect, Wand Maker, Student of Multischool Magic, etcetera. The Eladrin society includes different citizens with different experiences.

It is possible to represent a Nonelf who grows up in an elven Eladrin culture, by selecting one of the Eladrin backgrounds.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Is level up tied to the OGL? If it is, that's pretty risky at this point.

 

[Yaarel]

It's more that The best way to create 50 hybrids is to create 50 separate species.

But wizards of the coast is never going to do that unless they make a book of mostly species.

If there are four species - say Human, Elf, Dwarf, and Halfling - then the multispecies possible are:

Human-Elf
Human-Dwarf
Human-Halfling
Elf-Dwarf
Elf-Halfling
Dwarf-Halfling

plus:

Human-Elf-Dwarf
Human-Elf-Halfling
Human-Dwarf-Halfling
Elf-Dwarf-Halfling
Human-Elf-Dwarf-Halfling


If the number of permutable variables increases to ten species, then the number of possible multispecies permutations become extreme. If it expands to include all of the possible playable species in the Monster Manual and elsewhere, the number of possible permutations becomes absurd.

To assign a unique mechanic to each permutation possible becomes little more than grid-filling, which is then made worse by abitrary (often nonsensical) mechanical specifics that may or may not make sense, and that may or may not be the only outcome of such recombinant permutation.

To only assign a special mechanic to certain permutations is a defacto "privileging" certain "races", while discrimitating against other "races", which is the point being obsoleted in the first place.


The goal of assigning some weird random mechanic for each permutation is wrongminded design.

 

[Minigiant]

If there are four species - say Human, Elf, Dwarf, and Halfling - then the multispecies possible are:

Human-Elf
Human-Dwarf
Human-Halfling
Elf-Dwarf
Elf-Halfling
Dwarf-Halfling

plus:

Human-Elf-Dwarf
Human-Elf-Halfling
Human-Dwarf-Halfling
Elf-Dwarf-Halfling
Human-Elf-Dwarf-Halfling


If the number of permutable variables increases to ten species, then the number of possible multispecies permutations become extreme. If it expands to include all of the possible playable species in the Monster Manual and elsewhere, the number of possible permutations becomes absurd.

To assign a unique mechanic to each permutation possible becomes little more than grid-filling, which is then made worse by abitrary (often nonsensical) mechanical specifics that may or may not make sense, and that may or may not be the only outcome of such recombinant permutation.

To only assign a special mechanic to certain permutations is a defacto "privileging" certain "races", while discrimitating against other "races", which is the point being obsoleted in the first place.


The goal of assigning some weird random mechanic for each permutation is wrongminded design.

Well 5.5e has 10 species.

That 45 combinations.

Never happening with good design. Time to accept it.

 

[mamba]

It's more that The best way to create 50 hybrids is to create 50 separate species.

and the worst way is to say ‘pick one of the two’, there is plenty of room in the middle…

 

[mamba]

Is level up tied to the OGL? If it is, that's pretty risky at this point.

not really risky, and not really needed either, as the SRD is under CC now. Not sure if A5e switched over however

 

[Yaarel]

Well 5.5e has 10 species.

That 45 combinations.

Never happening with good design. Time to accept it.

Pick a parent for the mechanics, then describe the appearance as one wishes, is as good any reasonable design for multispecies characters.

I prefer the possibility of swapping mechanics to represent each parent. But this comes with balance concerns, and the need to present amounts of mechanics that are roughly equivalent in value, in order to make swapping similar amounts possible.

 

[Minigiant]

Pick a parent for the mechanics, then describe the appearance as one wishes, is as good any reasonable design for multispecies characters.

That one comes with the "sandwich" insensitivity.

It's worse that half-X names.

 

[Remathilis]

and the worst way is to say ‘pick one of the two’, there is plenty of room in the middle…

Such as...

You could create hundreds of specific combination stat blocks, but that would literally clog up the system. That's out.

You could create a Level Up system, but that's not backwards compatible and requires a redo of the species system. That's at least several years and possibly a new edition in the future.

You could just say "some pairings are allowed and others forbidden" but we're right back to 2014.

We can say "treat it as RP" but people are complaining that is not satisfying.

We can say "no crossbreeds" but that's erasure.

So what other solution is there except "every DM find your own answer?"

 

[mamba]

You could create hundreds of specific combination stat blocks, but that would literally clog up the system. That's out.

that is what was proposed as the best…

You could create a Level Up system, but that's not backwards compatible and requires a redo of the species system. That's at least several years and possibly a new edition in the future.

this one, they had time, and it is not like what they came up with is fully compatible either

You could just say "some pairings are allowed and others forbidden" but we're right back to 2014.

agreed, but at least it would be slightly more pairings hopefully

We can say "treat it as RP" but people are complaining that is not satisfying.

We can say "no crossbreeds" but that's erasure.

So what other solution is there except "every DM find your own answer?"

the mix and match of A5e, or something similar. That WotC dropped the ball on that and now has no time to get it into 2024 does not change that