D&D (2024) Should 2014 Half Elves and Half Orcs be added to the 2025 SRD?

[Remathilis]

flight and breath weapons aren't so out there are they? i don't see why they couldn't be in a point buy even if they had to tend towards a more expensive feature.

Specifics are mailable, I would suspect some features aren't available due to power, uniqueness (niche protection) or the like.

 

[Remathilis]

I can only speak directly for myself, obviously, but a point buy system for D&D species in particular at this time gives me hives on both an ethical and optimization level. Truly the last thing I want to see compared to most other options.

I kinda agree on this point. I still value some elements of niche protection in both species and classes. I want an elf to be a viable choice for more than just RP and my biggest fear with hybrid or build systems is that it will be more advantageous to use the system and pick exactly what traits you want rather than actually make a choice which better serves your concept. I fear the allure of customization will move that game to everyone feeling they must be hybrids or they're missing out and that full blood species become the champion fighter to hybrid's battle master.

 

[Doctor Futurity]

Half-elves are a thing because there were several half-elves in Tolkien. That's also the reason for half-orcs, not to play orcs. Tolkien wrote about man-orcs in his books and thus we got half-orcs. And folks like to play them.

Leaving Tolkien aside, both half elves and half orcs have been a popular thing in D&D itself now for fifty years. That's enough reason for me to feel they should still be available. It is always easier to give than to take away, and people notice when something has been taken, as it has here. Even more unusual, as there is no basis for "unfortunate lineage" half orcs in the new edition, where orcs appear to be friendly nomadic gauchos worshipping a Gruumsh who feels a bit like a fatherly Woden. And for the half elves, I have never heard of any negative connotation in relation to how one might end up with a human and elven parent, something that I feel accurately reflects how real racial and ethnic mixed-race people (an exceedingly common and normal thing in the real world) come about. So fantasy representation of such is actually a healthy expression. In other words: don't ditch the concept of mixed-race characters, ditch the outdated concept that it all has to happen due to bad actors among the parents.

 

[Maxperson]

Leaving Tolkien aside, both half elves and half orcs have been a popular thing in D&D itself now for fifty years. That's enough reason for me to feel they should still be available. It is always easier to give than to take away, and people notice when something has been taken, as it has here. Even more unusual, as there is no basis for "unfortunate lineage" half orcs in the new edition, where orcs appear to be friendly nomadic gauchos worshipping a Gruumsh who feels a bit like a fatherly Woden. And for the half elves, I have never heard of any negative connotation in relation to how one might end up with a human and elven parent, something that I feel accurately reflects how real racial and ethnic mixed-race people (an exceedingly common and normal thing in the real world) come about. So fantasy representation of such is actually a healthy expression. In other words: don't ditch the concept of mixed-race characters, ditch the outdated concept that it all has to happen due to bad actors among the parents.

Yeah. I wasn't saying or implying that half-elves haven't taken on a life of their own and gained popularity for their own sake. I was saying that the reason half-elves are a thing now is because they were put into the game due to Tolkien. At that point their popularity began and has moved on, but without Tolkien, there is a very good chance that they would never have appeared in the game to gain their popularity.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

And for the half elves, I have never heard of any negative connotation in relation to how one might end up with a human and elven parent,

Wasn't literally the first Half-Elf in D&D canon, Tanis Half-Elven, a product of human male assaulting Elven woman?

Also, I felt Half-orcs sole purpose was always to push people away from playing full Orcs, which rubbed me the wrong way.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Yeah, the thign about half orcs is that they were the original 'now shut up' option.

"You wanna play an orc? Well here's a half of one with a terrible origin story. Now shut up."

Only... now we've got orcs. So what need is there to shut us up?

It's like if they actually gave us half dragons; the question would become what purpose dragonborn now serve.

 

[Remathilis]

Also, I felt Half-orcs sole purpose was always to push people away from playing full Orcs, which rubbed me the wrong way.

It makes sense if you work backwards.

Half-species were a way to allow players to play things that wouldn't normally be allowed. Half-dragons being the classic example of this, but D&D has been littered with half-monsters which were designed to play "powered down" monsters. Half-orc was kinda the opposite: orcs were ugly, savage, evil, stupid, and utterly irredeemable but half-orcs could be closer more humanlike thanks to their human side adding intelligence and tempered their evilness.

Once you make orcs the equal of other species, the half-orc becomes superfluous.

 

[DarkCrisis]

Thu will be in a supplement book, don’t doubt it.

 

[Maxperson]

Wasn't literally the first Half-Elf in D&D canon, Tanis Half-Elven, a product of human male assaulting Elven woman?

Also, I felt Half-orcs sole purpose was always to push people away from playing full Orcs, which rubbed me the wrong way.

I doubt it. Given the number of modules that came out before Dragonlance, there had to have been half-elf NPCs in D&D prior to Tanis.

 

[Misanthrope Prime]

Just chiming in here to remind everyone that as a mixed-race person the best expression of half elves I've seen in any fiction is Eberron's Khoravar half-elves, a distinct "creole" half elf culture which is something I wish other fantasy settings and authors would explore. Something similar could very well be done with half-orcs too.