D&D 5E (2024) Should 2014 Half Elves and Half Orcs be added to the 2025 SRD?

[pemerton]

1e Dragonlance came out in 1987. Lot's of 1e modules predate that.

No. DL1 is 1984.

 

[Vaalingrade]

And it's SRD should refer to how the system handles mixed species due to the importance of them in the games history.

Much like how it should describe THACO, weapon speed and morale checks because they also used to be in the game and now aren't.

I know the D&D fandom is all about how Everything is Tradition and Tradition is Everything, but Blue is right: that's not what and SRD is for. The SRD is for making base concepts and mechanics available for use by third parties for compatibility purposes.

The Helf and Horc are no longer base concepts and mechanics in the system, so they shouldn't be in the SRD. That's a different argument as to whether they should be in the game.

 

[Minigiant]

Much like how it should describe THACO, weapon speed and morale checks because they also used to be in the game and now aren't

They were removed due to the name not popularity, outdatedness, or clunkiness.

That's the issue.

 

[Maxperson]

No. DL1 is 1984.

A1
A2
A3
A4
C1
C2
C3-also 1984
D1
D2
D3
EX1
EX2
G1
G2
G3
I1
I2
I3
I4
I5
I6
L1
L2
N1
N2-also 1984
O1
O2-also 1984
Q1
R1
R2
R3
R4
S1
S2
S3
S4
T1
U1
U2
U3
UK1
UK2
UK3-also 1984
UK4-also 1984
UK5-also 1984
UK6-also 1984
WG4
WG5-also 1984

That's 42 1e modules prior to Dragonlance, and 8 more that came out in 1984. I included the 1984 modules, because I don't know when in 1984 they or Dragonlance came out specifically and some of them might have come out before.

Sure, I got the date wrong on Dragonlance, because I was looking at the actual D&D setting and forgot about the modules, but my point remains unchanged. A ton of 1e modules came out prior to Dragonlance and I'm sure several of them had half-elven NPCs. Tanis was not the first.

 

[Vaalingrade]

They were removed due to the name not popularity, outdatedness, or clunkiness.

That's the issue.

At least the Horc is clearly outdated. The species that existed because orcs are bad and wrong doesn't have a lot of point when orcs are no longer bad and wrong.

Also still beyond the point as they're not in the game the SRD is being made for. no game, no SRD inclusion.

 

[Remathilis]

Unless there is an aspect of orcishness that is enhanced by a mix of humanity.

Another main draw of half elf is that you could get a bit of selfishness without the large restrictions elf used to have or had. Or the other way aroud habing access to human stuff with with a new elf setup.

The biggest hurdle due to race restrictions no longer existing is that the community would have agree on a non-ability-score physical and/or mental differences between a elf and half elf and orc and half orc.

There was: adding human to orc made orcs possible to be more intelligent, adaptive, skilled, and have non evil morality. In short, able to be a player usable species. Once you make orcs capable of being as intelligent, skilled and moral as humans (or other species) the rationale for a half-orc rapidly declines.

To a certain degree, the half-elf has floundered since 3e and the lifting of restrictions on elves. The half-elf, mechanically, was a compromise of elf (the best racial trait package in the game) and human (the race with the best class options). Once elves could be any class and humans got actual features, the half-elf lost it's spot as the compromise race and awkwardly tried to be the charisma and skill race (aka the bard race) for three editions.

Both races have lost there niche of "orc, but playable" and "elf, but more class choices" they kinda drifted into "strong, race" and "talky race" and with the movement of ASI to background, have nothing unique to hang their hat on.*

* Before you jump in with the mixed heritage analogy, I will point out I'm discussing mechanical aspects, not story ones. Neither race brings anything mechanically interesting other than "has some features of two already playable races". As for the analogy, their is nothing unique about that which couldn't have been done with any half-species. We are talking about half-elves and half-orcs and not half-gnomes and half-goliaths because of tradition. I'm not saying mixed heritage species should not exist, but I'm saying the rationale for these two specific ones are flimsy. It is basically a call to tradition and not much else.

 

[Minigiant]

At least the Horc is clearly outdated. The species that existed because orcs are bad and wrong doesn't have a lot of point when orcs are no longer bad and wrong.

Also still beyond the point as they're not in the game the SRD is being made for. no game, no SRD inclusion.

The half orc is not outdated It just hasn't been updated.

Since 4th edition the half orc and orc have been representing two different archetypes physically and mentally.

The orc with the shock trooper.
The half orc was the heavy infantry.

2024 Just got lazy and combined them.

 

[Micah Sweet]

There was: adding human to orc made orcs possible to be more intelligent, adaptive, skilled, and have non evil morality. In short, able to be a player usable species. Once you make orcs capable of being as intelligent, skilled and moral as humans (or other species) the rationale for a half-orc rapidly declines.

To a certain degree, the half-elf has floundered since 3e and the lifting of restrictions on elves. The half-elf, mechanically, was a compromise of elf (the best racial trait package in the game) and human (the race with the best class options). Once elves could be any class and humans got actual features, the half-elf lost it's spot as the compromise race and awkwardly tried to be the charisma and skill race (aka the bard race) for three editions.

Both races have lost there niche of "orc, but playable" and "elf, but more class choices" they kinda drifted into "strong, race" and "talky race" and with the movement of ASI to background, have nothing unique to hang their hat on.*

* Before you jump in with the mixed heritage analogy, I will point out I'm discussing mechanical aspects, not story ones. Neither race brings anything mechanically interesting other than "has some features of two already playable races". As for the analogy, their is nothing unique about that which couldn't have been done with any half-species. We are talking about half-elves and half-orcs and not half-gnomes and half-goliaths because of tradition. I'm not saying mixed heritage species should not exist, but I'm saying the rationale for these two specific ones are flimsy. It is basically a call to tradition and not much else.

The existence of both is not about mechanical rstionale, so discussing their unworthiness to remain by that metric is not IMO relevant.

 

[mamba]

The existence of both is not about mechanical rstionale, so discussing their unworthiness to remain by that metric is not IMO relevant.

they have not been removed in another way than mechanics however, they just are no longer the only mixed races

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Since 4th edition the half orc and orc have been representing two different archetypes physically and mentally.

The orc with the shock trooper.
The half orc was the heavy infantry

D&D is not a war game. Neither shock trooper nor heavy infantry are D&D archetypes. Half orcs were “the big guy” archetype in previous editions. That archetype is now spread thinly between orcs, goliaths and Dragonborn.