D&D (2024) Should 2014 Half Elves and Half Orcs be added to the 2025 SRD?

[Minigiant]

There was: adding human to orc made orcs possible to be more intelligent, adaptive, skilled, and have non evil morality. In short, able to be a player usable species. Once you make orcs capable of being as intelligent, skilled and moral as humans (or other species) the rationale for a half-orc rapidly declines.

To a certain degree, the half-elf has floundered since 3e and the lifting of restrictions on elves. The half-elf, mechanically, was a compromise of elf (the best racial trait package in the game) and human (the race with the best class options). Once elves could be any class and humans got actual features, the half-elf lost it's spot as the compromise race and awkwardly tried to be the charisma and skill race (aka the bard race) for three editions.

Both races have lost there niche of "orc, but playable" and "elf, but more class choices" they kinda drifted into "strong, race" and "talky race" and with the movement of ASI to background, have nothing unique to hang their hat on.*

* Before you jump in with the mixed heritage analogy, I will point out I'm discussing mechanical aspects, not story ones. Neither race brings anything mechanically interesting other than "has some features of two already playable races". As for the analogy, their is nothing unique about that which couldn't have been done with any half-species. We are talking about half-elves and half-orcs and not half-gnomes and half-goliaths because of tradition. I'm not saying mixed heritage species should not exist, but I'm saying the rationale for these two specific ones are flimsy. It is basically a call to tradition and not much else.

Again since for 4th and later in 5th edition.org and half orc have diverged into two different archetypes.

The issue is only fans both species recognized and roleplayed this

 

[Remathilis]

The existence of both is not about mechanical rstionale, so discussing their unworthiness to remain by that metric is not IMO relevant.

If mechanics are not relevant, then use any mechanics you want and call it a half-elf (or half-whatever).

 

[Minigiant]

D&D is not a war game. Neither shock trooper nor heavy infantry are D&D archetypes. Half orcs were “the big guy” archetype in previous editions. That archetype is now spread thinly between orcs, goliaths and Dragonborn.

Let me explain it in a simpler way that does match D&D.

Half orc big damage.
Orc is quick damage.

The humanity in half orc allows them to optimize their orcishness.

Half orcs are overspecialized power gamer optimizer orcs.

 

[Micah Sweet]

If mechanics are not relevant, then use any mechanics you want and call it a half-elf (or half-whatever).

The specific mechanics and role are not relevant. But it's still a game, so have mechanics at all still matters.

 

[Remathilis]

The specific mechanics and role are not relevant. But it's still a game, so have mechanics at all still matters.

By that token, do katanas exist in 5e? What about witches? What about squirrels? None of those things have mechanical representation?

It is perfectly valid to say the half-elf and half-orc no longer have a unique niche, mechanically or thematically, that couldn't be handled by some other system of representing mixed heritage PCs. The need for a unique specific species just to represent one potential hybrid species is outdated, and the only reason for people to argue it should is "but Gary put it in the PHB 45 years ago!"

And if that's the argument, I want my base class assassin back!

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Let me explain it in a simpler way that does match D&D.

Half orc big damage.
Orc is quick damage.

The humanity in half orc allows them to optimize their orcishness.

Half orcs are overspecialized power gamer optimizer orcs.

Are you talking about 4e? Because I don’t know any mechanics that support that.

 

[Micah Sweet]

By that token, do katanas exist in 5e? What about witches? What about squirrels? None of those things have mechanical representation?

It is perfectly valid to say the half-elf and half-orc no longer have a unique niche, mechanically or thematically, that couldn't be handled by some other system of representing mixed heritage PCs. The need for a unique specific species just to represent one potential hybrid species is outdated, and the only reason for people to argue it should is "but Gary put it in the PHB 45 years ago!"

And if that's the argument, I want my base class assassin back!

I agree. All those things should have mechanical representation. My whole game design philosophy practically demands as much mechanical representation as possible. I want different things modeled differently, darn it!

 

[Minigiant]

Are you talking about 4e? Because I don’t know any mechanics that support that.

Both 4e and 5e

Half orcs get a damage bonus and endurance bonus in fourth edition and 5th edition.

Orcs get a charging bonus in fourth edition and fifth edition. 4th edition also gave them a healing feature.

Half orc dealt more damage and more hard to down.

Orcs were brutal and hard to escape.

The issue is that we're still using mentality that is now almost 20 years old and ignoring the mechanics and law that is more recent.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The issue is that we're still using mentality that is now almost 20 years old and ignoring the mechanics and law that is more recent

I’ll have you know my mechanics and lore are are over 40 years old!

 

[Minigiant]

I’ll have you know my mechanics and lore are are over 40 years old!

That's even worse!

Because orcs don't even have super strength anymore.