D&D (2024) Should 2014 Half Elves and Half Orcs be added to the 2025 SRD?

[Paul Farquhar]

That's on WOTC for making too few d10 and d12 spells

Err, you do realise lots of dice spells go back to TSR days? And exist for the practical reason that people tend to have a lot more d6s than other dice? And has stayed much the same between editions because it ain’t broke?

There's ways to make it work if you design it right

So you are so desperate for half orcs that you want to redesign the entire magic system to try and make a mechanical space for them!

Why does it surprise you that WotC don’t agree?

 

[Not a Decepticon]

I'm not the one says "We can only use the problematic lore and weak mechanics for judgement.".

I want the Divinely crafter Super Soldiers lore. Half Orcs as Medieval Adepts Custodes.

And I have pointed out that the "lore" you try to press is basically just eugenics. Not to mention it is alluded to in one sentence, with no elaboration. This isn't lore, it's your headcanon. You want us to accept a fanfiction idea you made off a single sentence as a canon thing in the books and demand we only argue acknowledging lore that benefits your argument and arbitrairy disqualify everything else.

I didn't mention roles. Others did.

This you?

And when they reached 5e, they diverged. Half orc became the heavy trooper to the orc's shock trooper.

Because "heavy trooper" and "shock trooper" sound like roles to me.

I just said the races weren't the same and that they have aspects that could be retained

And we all told you said aspects were not enough to justify having both Orcs and Half-Orcs.

You should put them in, if you want them in your game. What's stopping you?

Please reread the post I quote and see in what context am I using the line "put them in", then realize how little sense your reply makes.

Because as we've seen thousands of times over the past decade(s)... it's not enough to have the game a person wants to play-- they need WotC to agree with them and make the game they want to play. It's always about personal ego.

With all due respect, back off. I'm playing my game with a number of house rules and in one of old settings, Mystara, desptie it being incompatible with lore presented in 5e. I don't come to threads abotu design discussion and debate over game design choices, to be acussed of having huge ego for participating in design discussion and debate over game design choices.

Also, let's not forget, the original orc stats were so absurdly bad that the vast majority of people out there just let you take half orc stats and be a full orc, because nothing about the half orc stateline doesn't work for full orcs. If they were so different to each other, folks shouldn't have been able to do so. And yet, they did.

In fact, even people working for WotC did this - Planeshift Ixalan has Orcs entry just boil down to "use Half-Orc statistics".

There's ways to make it work if you design it right

You can say that about anything, it's a meaningless phrase.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Please reread the post I quote and see in what context am I using the line "put them in", then realize how little sense your reply makes.

With all due respect, back off. I'm playing my game with a number of house rules and in one of old settings, Mystara, desptie it being incompatible with lore presented in 5e. I don't come to threads abotu design discussion and debate over game design choices, to be acussed of having huge ego for participating in design discussion and debate over game design choices.

The thread is about putting certain elements in the SRD. Since they're already there in an SRD for 5e, I see that as a solved problem. So that just leaves your own game in my estimation, as nothing we do here will move the needle at WotC Central. And you can do what you want in your own game.

So again I ask: what's stopping you?

Note: I suppose you could also be publishing your own game or supplement. Is that what's happening? If so I would love to hear more about it.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

The thread is about putting certain elements in the SRD. Since they're already there in an SRD for 5e, I see that as a solved problem. So that just leaves your own game in my estimation, as nothing we do here will move the needle at WotC Central. And you can do what you want in your own game.

So again I ask: what's stopping you?

Note: I suppose you could also be publishing your own game or supplement. Is that what's happening? If so I would love to hear more about it.

You are now constructing false strawman argument. I have never entered this thread with the intention of what to put in my game, because my game is using old rules and I won't change the system until we're finished with the campaign and begun another. The discussion is always about whenever people here think decision made by developers was correct. It is baffling someone would come to such thread and so fundamentally misunderstand its purpose to argue if you say you'd do something differently, you either have to put it in your own personal game or publish your own agame.

Nevermind I teased I will post my homebrew take once I make it, now I consider not doing this simply because I'm uncomfortable with your weird demand.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You are now constructing false strawman argument. I have never entered this thread with the intention of what to put in my game, because my game is using old rules and I won't change the system until we're finished with the campaign and begun another. The discussion is always about whenever people here think decision made by developers was correct. It is baffling someone would come to such thread and so fundamentally misunderstand its purpose to argue if you say you'd do something differently, you either have to put it in your own personal game or publish your own agame.

Nevermind I teased I will post my homebrew take once I make it, now I consider not doing this simply because I'm uncomfortable with your weird demand.

I'm not making any demands. I'm just laying out the options as I see them. You can do what you want, including something I'm not thinking of. Since in my view you can always change the rules if the official ones don't work for you, I don't see that it matters in any practical way whether or not "decisions made by developers were correct". I especially don't see how my comments could be making you uncomfortable, but if so I sincerely apologize.

 

[DEFCON 1]

With all due respect, back off. I'm playing my game with a number of house rules and in one of old settings, Mystara, desptie it being incompatible with lore presented in 5e. I don't come to threads about design discussion and debate over game design choices, to be acussed of having huge ego for participating in design discussion and debate over game design choices.

If you are house ruling your game in order to play Mystara then I applaud you. That's exactly what you should be doing and I'm glad to see you are.

My comment was towards people who do not do that but instead just constantly complain that WotC isn't making those changes to the game for them. Those that feel it's not enough to have specific rules that they can use in their own game, but that everybody else be using those same rules too. And that's where ego comes in-- thinking that their way of playing the game is the way everyone should be playing.

It doesn't matter the specific rules WotC puts in their game because everyone can change them to what they prefer as necessary.

 

[Vaalingrade]

My comment was towards people who do not do that but instead just constantly complain that WotC isn't making those changes to the game for them.

And that argument is still pure Oberoni Fallacy.

If the argument is about what direction the game should go, the fact that you can homebrew is irrelevant.

 

[DEFCON 1]

And that argument is still pure Oberoni Fallacy.

If the argument is about what direction the game should go, the fact that you can homebrew is irrelevant.

No, for me its not which way the game should go, because the game has already gone in the direction it is going. The books have already been written. So people are arguing for something that isn't happening, and the only option remaining is to house rule. It is arguing for something other than house ruling that is irrelevant, and people still do it even though it's pointless because they can't stand the thought that WotC doesn't agree with them in what the "right" way for the game should be.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

If you are house ruling your game in order to play Mystara then I applaud you. That's exactly what you should be doing and I'm glad to see you are.

My comment was towards people who do not do that but instead just constantly complain that WotC isn't making those changes to the game for them. Those that feel it's not enough to have specific rules that they can use in their own game, but that everybody else be using those same rules too. And that's where ego comes in-- thinking that their way of playing the game is the way everyone should be playing.

It doesn't matter the specific rules WotC puts in their game because everyone can change them to what they prefer as necessary.

Okay, but in a thread where we share our opinions about whenever or not the decision made by game designer and publisher in their published work was correct or wrong, where we are using arguments mostly aligned to game design to defend our position....you see how "you can just homebrew it" is kind of counterproductive, especially for people who are interested in arguments pertaining to game design others are posting?

 

[DEFCON 1]

Okay, but in a thread where we share our opinions about whenever or not the decision made by game designer and publisher in their published work was correct or wrong, where we are using arguments mostly aligned to game design to defend our position....you see how "you can just homebrew it" is kind of counterproductive, especially for people who are interested in arguments pertaining to game design others are posting?

You all have had 56 pages of conversation about it. If you haven't come to any conclusions yet after all this time, maybe a "You can just house rule it if it matters that much" is the next logical step to look at?

Although in truth this thread isn't even supposed to be about debating the work of the designers, it's supposed to be about whether a pair of species that aren't in the 5E24 Player's Handbook should be added to the 5E24 SRD anyway. Which means a lot of the folks here have already diverged from the point of the thread, meaning my comments are no different than anyone else's.