D&D 5E Should 5E have Healing Surges?

[LurkAway]

Healing surges are deeply integrated into the game. Very nearly every form of healing available relies on healing surges. That's not to say you can't remove them from the game, but it would be quite a bit of work.

I would have no problem with surges as an optional bundle that changes the game from Medium to Easy.

I would then mostly play 'medium' D&D with no surges, but maybe once in a while try 'easy' high fantasy D&D with surges.

So far, I'm pleasantly surprised at the poll results so far.

 

[El Mahdi]

Not in 4E, it isn't. Healing surges are deeply integrated into the game. Very nearly every form of healing available relies on healing surges. That's not to say you can't remove them from the game, but it would be quite a bit of work.

I respectfully disagree.

Newer players that start with a game that uses healing surges won't know the difference, so likely won't care. Those that do know the difference are going to be players and GM's who have played past editions. Simply ignoring healing surge mechanics, whether using a healing surge straight, using it as part of a power, or using at as part of a magic item, isn't difficult for these players. These same people also understand how healing potions, healing magic items, and healing spells worked in past editions, and would very easily be able to add those effects back in.

I don't see it being quite a bit of work at all. I could do it in a matter of minutes. Whether I was playing 4E and wanted to take it out*, or playing another edition and wanted to add it in. I could probably even make such changes on the fly, and I am by no means an RPG mechanics genius. If I was, my ENWorld name would be WotC_Mark instead**.

Though from what I've read so far of D&D Next in the seminar transcripts (though nobody can truly say what the final game will look like), it seems like healing surges will probably exist in some form, but probably won't be as integral a part as they are in 4E (though I still feel that even in 4E, they aren't so prohibitively integral that they can't be easily removed or simply ignored). It also sounds like Powers probably won't be an integral part either. I think they will be there for players and GM's who do like them, but it looks like there will be character builds that don't use them.




*Just for info purposes: I don't play 4E, but I have studied the mechanics of it quite thouroughly, and stolen quite a number of bits from it for my own games. I do have a pretty good understanding of how 4E works.

**Ahhhh...if wishing could make it so...

 

[Oni]

I fail to see the purpose. If you can heal x amount of damage per day, why not give the character x more hp instead?

The reason is very simple, with Healing Surges a character doesn't have access to all the HP at once during combat. The upshot of this is you can have an HP differential between say a Fighter and a Wizard, but it exist more in terms of staying power than the wizard being able to be smeared in a single blow. It allows lower HP classes to be a bit less fragile in the immediate sense while allowing high HP classes to have a little more tension in every combat rather than when the just get low on HP.

The problem isn't really with the concept IMHO it's more with the implementation of them in 4E, that is to say everyone just had too dang many HP in general, so it was harder to get that sense of danger.

I sincerely believe that the concept is sound, it just needs to be 1)mechanically fine tuned and 2) needs to be explained better in the rules, what it actually represents. I find a lot of people (not everyone) that dislikes, or argues against, healing surges don't have a very good understanding of them. That you can fine tune the game so much by altering their value, quantity, and refresh rate says a lot in favor of their versatility and what they could bring to a game that's meant to be a toolkit. There really just an alternate take on the vitality point system anyway, it's kind of hard to see what's so controversial about them other than the edition they appeared in.

 

[Roland55]

It's a personal thing. For me, "healing surges" was probably the single thing I liked least from the 4th Edition.

Pulled me out of the game, disrupted my sense of flow, and just generally irritated me.

I realize this is my problem. But, for me, it really IS a problem.

I'd prefer if it was absent from D&D Next. Next best would be if it's an option ... way back in the back.

You asked.

 

[Aberzanzorax]

I want 5e to be a game that can easily be played without healing surges present at all, ever. I voted against them.


However, my longer answer would be "I don't care" in the modular sense. I'd actually like for them to be "included" in a modular way for the 4e folks who like em...I just don't want them anywhere near my own game group.

 

[NewJeffCT]

I like the idea of healing surges, but like DannyA above, I think they're too plentiful and they also cure too many hit points of damage. Nearly every leader is going to have a bonus, so it's not just 1/4 of hit points, it's (1/4 +2d6), or (1/4 + the leader's ability modifier), or (1/4 + ability mod + adjacent ally gets ability mod healing, too) etc. If you're going to hand out bonuses, make the base surge value lower. Otherwise, keep the 1/4 of hit points healing surge, but make it much harder to hand out a ton of bonus healing on top of that.

To me, the best part of healing surges is that they put the kibosh on the 15 minute adventuring day. If the group has healing surges left, they can press on to the next encounter, and then the next encounter after that, and so on, as long as they have surges.

In previous editions, it was almost always one encounter per day - once you were down in spells, you went back to a safe haven to rest, heal and recover the party's spells. (Of course, sometimes it is easier said than done in that regards.)

 

[SensoryThought]

Even removing healing surges, having healing effects scale with the total hp of the target is a good thing to come out of 4e.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Also, just curious, it seems that a lot of people have a problem with healing surges in combat making hit points bounce up & down.

Prior to 4E, or with Pathfinder, did healing just not happen in combat in your games? Was it almost always done post combat with wands, scrolls & potions, plus whatever else the cleric could add?

I've been playing D&D since the late 70s and I've always seen healing go on within combat - be it the cleric casting Cure Light Wounds, somebody pulling out a Potion of Healing & chugging it or the paladin laying his hands on somebody.

Heck, my 3.5E game ended a couple of years ago and one of the turning points in the penultimate battle was when both sides were around level 17, but almost everybody was really low in hit points on both sides... the PC cleric managed to cast a Mass Heal and get almost the entire party. So, the PC dwarf with 16 hit points is then cured of 170 points of damage and is now at 186, while the elf paladin with 5 hit points is now back up to full around 150, etc. Then, right before the evil priestess was going to do the same for her side, the PCs managed to cut her down, thus leaving the bad guys all with low hit points and the PCs at or near full.

The battle also featured individual Heal and Revivify spells on both sides. So, both sides were a lot more up & down in hit points than in any 4E game I've seen since.

 

[frankthedm]

Before the surge system, people had (1e/2e) haversacks full of healing potions

Magical items were not assumed to be for sale in those editions.

and (3e) CLW wands.

Readily available magic items for sale was a problem in 3E.

 

[Sammael]

Oh come on Frank, potion sellers were a staple even in 1e and 2e. The fun part was that you weren't really sure the potion did what the seller claimed it did, and testing the potions was no easy matter...

...and also, potion miscibility FTW.