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5E Should 5e have more classes (Poll and Discussion)?

Should D&D 5e have more classes?


  • Total voters
    205

Crimson Longinus

Adventurer
A couple of people have made suggestions, but in essence, the BM fighter only has a few dice to perform maneuvers each short rest, and those maneuvers are relatively minor and don't scale well at all.
The "lazy lord" was an edge case only really made possible by a splatbook, and isn't indicative of warlords as a whole, but the ability to attack an opponent and grant effective bonuses against it for example is something that a warlord should be able to do regularly. The issue is that as a Fighter subclass any bonus-granting actions are having to compete not just on a 'class power' economy, but also the action economy, with the fighter's monster attacks/round and other directly offensive capabilities.
The solution for the action economy thing was offered. Give the warlord subclass a feature that allows them to forgo using their extra attacks and instead give an ally an attack. A bit like beastmaster ranger (in some version at least!) does with their pet. And it has a benefit of making the warlord not a total wimp in combat if they don't have their allies with them, as then they can just use the extra attacks normally then. Also an capability to grant advantage on allies in certain conditions doesn't seem like something that couldn't be baked in.
 

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The solution for the action economy thing was offered. Give the warlord subclass a feature that allows them to forgo using their extra attacks and instead give an ally an attack.
That's pretty much the issue: forgoing your extra attacks to just grant one attack just isn't effective.
A bit like beastmaster ranger (in some version at least!) does with their pet. And it has a benefit of making the warlord not a total wimp in combat if they don't have their allies with them, as then they can just use the extra attacks normally then. Also an capability to grant advantage on allies in certain conditions doesn't seem like something that couldn't be baked in.
Granting advantage was an example. Damage, defensive bonuses, movement, or inflicting some conditions on their opponent are all possibilities.
 

Crimson Longinus

Adventurer
That's pretty much the issue: forgoing your extra attacks to just grant one attack just isn't effective.
It can be accompanied by some sort of a bonus to the attack. But what is the exact amount of attacks the party should be able to generate before it becomes an issue is not affected by whom and how the attacks were produced

Granting advantage was an example. Damage, defensive bonuses, movement, or inflicting some conditions on their opponent are all possibilities.
Yes, sure. And nothing is stopping a fighter build from doing that.
 

Here, made a rough draft of the Gish class. I have based some abilities off of the Pathfinder Magus (Spell Strike, Magic Recall), but have also been taking personal liberties while designing it.

Gish
The Gish
LevelProficiency BonusFeatures1st2nd3rd4th5th
1st+2Eldritch Ward, Imbued Weapon
2nd+2Fighting Style, Spell Strike2
3rd+2Arcane Study, Magic Sense, Recall Magic3
4th+2Ability Score Improvement3
5th+3Extra Attack42
6th+3Arcane Protection42
7th+3Arcane Study feature432
8th+3Ability Score Improvement432
9th+4432
10th+4Magic Resistance432
11th+4Improved Spell Strike, Arcane Study feature4331
12th+4Ability Score Improvement4331
13th+54332
14th+5Spell Siphon4332
15th+5Arcane Study feature4332
16th+5Ability Score Improvement4332
17th+643321
18th+6Battle Caster43321
19th+6Ability Score Improvement43332
20th+6Master of Gish43332
Class Features
As a gish, you gain the following class features.
Hit Points
Hit Dice:
1d10 per gish level
Hit Points at 1st-Level: 10 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d10 (or 6) + your Constitution modifier per paladin level after 1st
Proficiencies
Armor:
All armor, shields
Weapons: Simple weapons, martial weapons
Tools: None
Saving Throw: Constitution, Intelligence
Skills: Choose two from Acrobatics, Arcana, Athletics, History, Insight, and Nature
Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:
  • (a) studded leather armor or (b) scale mail or (c) chainmail
  • (a) a martial weapon and a shield or (b) two martial weapons
  • (a) five spears or (b) any simple melee weapon
  • (a) dungeoneer's pack or (b) explorer's pack
  • an arcane focus of your choice
Eldritch Ward
At 1st level, your arcane power allows for you to protect you with a magic shield. As an action, you can give yourself or a creature you touch an amount of temporary hit points equal to your Intelligence modifier plus your gish level (minimum of one temporary hit point).
Once you use this feature, you cannot do so again until you finish a short rest.
Imbued Weapon
Starting at level 1, your combat magic allows for you to bond with a weapon you hold. As a bonus action, you can form a connection with a weapon of your choice that you are holding. This bond lasts for 10 minutes and ends if you end your turn with the weapon no longer in your hand.
An imbued weapon cannot leave your hand without you being willing, it counts as a magic weapon if it wasn't already, and you can use your Intelligence modifier for the attack and damage rolls instead of its normal ability score.
You may use this feature an amount of times equal to your Intelligence modifier, regaining all uses on a long rest.
Fighting Style
At 2nd level, you adopt a style of fighting as your specialty. Choose one of the following options. You can't take a Fighting Style option more than once, even if you later get to choose one again.
Defense
While you are wearing armor, you gain a +1 bonus to AC.
Dueling
When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.
Great Weapon Fighting
When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage dice for an attack you make with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, you can reroll the dice and must use the new roll. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit.
Two-Weapon Fighting
When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.
Spellcasting
By 2nd level, you have learned how to draw on arcane magic through studying and training in the arcane art, gaining the ability to cast spells. You can channel your spells through magical items, and use your weapons to focus your arcane spells.
Preparing and Casting Spells
The Gish table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your spells. To cast one of your gish spells of 1st-level or higher. You regain all spells slots when you finish a long rest.
You prepare the list of gish spells that are available for you to cast, choosing from the gish spell list. When you do so, choose a number of gish spells equal to your Intelligence modifier + half your gish level, rounded down (minimum of one spell). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
For example, if you are a 5th-level gish, you have four 1st-level and two 2nd-level spell slots. With an Intelligence of 14, your list of prepared spells can include four spells of 1st or 2nd level, in any combination. If you prepare the 1st-level spell burning hands, you can cast it using a 1st-level or a 2nd-level slot. Casting the spell doesn't remove it from your list of prepared spell.
You can change your list of prepared spell when you finish a long rest. Preparing a new list of gish spells requires time spent in study: at least 1 minute per spell level for each spell on your list.
Spellcasting Ability
Intelligence is your spellcasting ability for your gish spells, since their power derives from the devotion to your arcane training. You use your Intelligence whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Intelligence modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a gish spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.
Spell save DC = 8 _ your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier
Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier
Spellcasting Focus
You can use an arcane focus or magic weapon as a spellcasting focus for your gish spells.
Gish Spell List
Here's the list of spells you consult when you learn a gish spell. The list is organized by spell level, not by character level.
These spells are from the Player's Handbook. If a spell's name is followed by an asterisk, the spell is instead Xanathar's Guide to Everything.
1st Level
absorb elements
burning hands
detect magic
identity
jump
magic missile
shield
thunderwave
witch bolt

2nd Level
aganazzer's scorcher
enlarge/reduce
flaming sphere
hold person
magic weapon
misty step
scorching ray
shatter

3rd Level
dispel magic
fear
fireball
haste
lightning bolt
slow
vampiric touch

4th Level
banishment
blight
dimension door
fire shield
resilient sphere
wall of fire

5th Level
bigby's hand
cloudkill
dawn
dominate person
enervation
hold monster
immolation
steel wind strike
synaptic static
telekinesis
wall of force

Spell Strike
At level 2, you can imbue magic weapons you hold with your spells. When you cast a gish spell that has a casting time of an action that targets another creature with a harmful effect, you can instead cast it, trapping it in your weapon instead of instantly releasing it. This temporarily delays the spell's effects, trapping them inside one magical melee weapon you are holding. The effects of the spell are unleashed the next time you hit a creature with the weapon. The spell remains inside the weapon for 1 minute, until you lose concentration, or until you hit a creature with this melee weapon, whereupon the spell is released and come it comes into effect.
If the spell required a saving throw, the creature you hit with this magical melee weapon while the spell is trapped inside automatically fails its saving throw. If the spell required an attack roll, if you hit a creature with the initial attack, you do not have to attack that creature again, and it becomes the target of one of the spell's attacks. If the spell required more than one attack roll, one of these attacks must be targeting the hit creature, and the others come into effect as normal. If the spell creates an area of effect, you can designate your weapon or the hit creature (your choice) as the origin of the area of effect.
If the spell would immediately cause damage when you cast it, this damage is added to the weapon attack's damage. Additionally, if you must use an action or bonus action on further turns to maintain the effects of the spell, you may continue to keep the spell inside your magic weapon, continuing this effect until the duration of the spell ends.
Arcane Study
When you reach 3rd level, you solidify which archetype of arcane combat you will practice. Up to this point, you have been training, practicing, and preparing for this choice, and now it is cemented as part of you. Now, choose the Eldritch Striker, Arcane Bastion, or Spell Herald. This is your subclass, and grants you certian benefits at 3rd, 7th, 11th, and 15th level.
Magic Sense
At 3rd level, your arcane power is attuned to detecting the power in others. As an action, choose one creature you can see within 60 feet of you. You learn if they can cast any spells, and if they can, you learn what level spellcaster they are if they have any levels as a spellcaster, and you learn how many spell slots they have left if they have any.
You may use this feature an amount of times equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of once), regaining all uses at the end of a long rest.
Recall Magic
When you gain this feature at level 3, you can regain your arcane fuel after using your gish spells. As a bonus action, when you have expended a spell slot of 5th level or lower, you may regain a spell slot of that level. You may use this feature an amount of times equal to your proficiency bonus, regaining all uses on a long rest.
Ability Score Improvement
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can’t increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.
Using the optional feats rule, you can forgo taking this feature to take a feat of your choice instead.
Extra Attack
Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
Arcane Protection
Starting at level 6, when you fail a saving throw against a spell, as a reaction, you can instead choose to succeed. You may use this feature once, regaining the ability to do so when you finish a long rest.
At both 13th and 17th level, you gain one more use of this ability.
Magic Resistance
At level 10, you have advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects.
Improved Spell Strike
When you reach 11th level, when you cast a spell into your weapon that has a casting time of an action, you can instead cast it as a bonus action.
Additionally, your magic weapon attacks deal an extra 1d8 force damage, and you no longer have to maintain concentration on your weapon while a spell is stored inside of it.
Spell Siphon
Starting at level 14, when you hit a spellcaster with a magical attack from a melee weapon, you can steal and absorb some of their magical power. As a reaction, if the hit creature is a spellcaster that has spell slots, you can force them to expend a spell slot of a level that you can cast, and regain a spell slot of the expended level or lower.
You may use this feature an amount of times equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of once), and regain all uses after a long rest.
War Mage
When you gain this feature at 18th level, when you use your action to cast a spell, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action.
Master of Gish
At level 20, you have mastered the art of combat magic, empowering you further. You gain the following benefits:
  • All weapons you are wielding automatically gain the benefit of being your Imbued Weapon, using no action or uses of the ability.
  • When you roll a 20 for an attack roll you make with a magic melee weapon against an enemy, you regain a spell slot of your lowest expended level.
  • You automatically take no damage from spells that you cast that create an area of effect.
Arcane Studies
Becoming a gish includes intensive training with weapons, learning various styles of weapon fighting, and studying and practicing arcane magic. Your final act of studying and solidifying your niche of arcane combat comes at level 3, and is the culmination of all of your practicing. You are not considered a full gish until you have reached level 3 and chosen a study.
Arcane Striker
The study of the Arcane Striker practices and focuses their arcane power with magic that fuels their weapon attacks. They are experts at using their Spell Strikes, and powerful combat casters.
Study Spells
Arcane Striker Spells

Imbued Striking
Starting at level 3, you have greater power over your striking abilities. When you deal damage with your imbued weapon while a spell is stored inside it, you deal extra damage of the attack's damage type equal to your proficiency bonus.
Strike Sustainer
At 7th level, you can sustain your Spell Strike on your turn, even after you hit a creature with it. When you hit a creature on your turn and cause them to take the effects of you Spell Strike, the effect does not end on your weapon. The next time on the same turn you hit another creature with with weapon, they are subjected to the same effects as your first use of this ability on this turn, as long as the spell stored in the weapon did not cause an area of effect. If the spell stored inside requires concentration, you can concentrate on both castings of the spell at the same time.
Strike Master
At level 11, when you damage a creature with your Spell Strike ability with a spell that deals damage, you may choose an amount of dice equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of one), and ignore the roll for those dice, instead counting them as the highest possible rolls for damage.
Striker
When you gain this feature at 17th level, you become a true master of striking. You gain the following benefits:
  • When you damage a creature with a spell, you add your Intelligence modifier to the damage dealt by the spell.
  • When you deal damage with a spell using your Spell Strikes, you may choose to deal the most amount of damage possible with that spell. Once you use this feature, you cannot do so again until you finish a long rest.
  • You have advantage on all melee weapon attacks with a weapon that you have a spell imbued inside, as with Spell Strike.
Eldritch Nullifier
The study of the Eldritch Nullifier uses their magic and martial strikes to cancel the spells of other casters.

Study Spells
You gain the following prepared spells, which become gish spells for you and do not count against the amount of spells you can prepare.

Eldritch Nullifier Spells
Nullifying Strikes
At 3rd level, your arcane powered strikes can end spells cast by others. When you hit a creature with an attack using your Spell Strikes, you may force the creature to make a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC, ending the spell on them on a failed save.

Spell Stopper
Starting at level 7, when a creature makes a Constitution saving throw for concentration that you forced them to make, they have disadvantage on the saving throw.

Block Magic
When you gain this feature at 11th level, you can stop a creature from casting spells. When you hit a creature with your Spell Strike, it cannot cast a spell until the start of your next turn. You may use this an amount of times equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of once), regaining all uses at the end of a long rest.

Antimage
At level 15, you gain the following benefits:

  • When you use Spell Siphon, the level of spell slot you steal can be of any level, and you gain a spell slot of the level you choose to steal or lower until you finish a long rest.
  • When you hit a creature with an attack that has the ability to cast a spell, you deal extra damage equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of one extra damage).
  • As a reaction, when a creature within reach of a magical melee weapon you're holding casts an offensive spell, you may make an attack with that weapon against them. If you hit, their spell does not come into effect and is wasted, and you imbue that spell into your weapon as with your Spell Strike ability.
Spell Bastion
The study of the Spell Bastion focuses on protecting themselves and others with their arcane power, as well as blocking out their enemies. Often wardens, city guards, and bouncers, these gish are trusted companions and fearsome to their enemies.

Study Spells
You gain the following prepared spells, which become gish spells for you and do not count against the amount of spells you can prepare.

Spell Bastion Spells
Strikes of Warding
When you gain this feature at level 3, you can protect yourself when you strike others with your magic weapons. When you hit a creature with your Spell Strike, you gain an amount of temporary hit points equal to your proficiency bonus.

Defensive Aura
At 7th level, an aura of protecting energy emanates from you. When you, or any creature of your choice within 5 feet of you, is subjected to an effect that allows them to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, they instead take no damage if they succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if they fail.

At level 15, this aura's range increases to 10 feet.

Shielding Strikes
Starting at level 11, when you hit a creature with Spell Strike, until the end of their next turn, they cannot take reactions, and has disadvantage on attack rolls against creatures other than you.

Bulwark
Beginning when you get this feature at 15th level, you gain the following features:

  • When you succeed on a saving throw against a spell targeting only you, you are not effected by the spell at all, and can force the creature who targeted you to make the saving throw against the spell, or become effected by it as if they cast it on themselves. Once you use this feature, you may not do so again until you finish a long rest.
  • You may add your Intelligence modifier to your Armor Class when you are holding a magic shield or weapon.
  • While you have temporary hit points, you have resistance to all damage.
 
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Minigiant

Legend
I think I have finally narrowed down the list of 5 classes I would be okay with adding to 5th Edition
  • Scholar
  • Shaman
  • Truenamer
  • Warlord
  • Psion
I could see a way to combine the Scholar, Truenamer, and Warlord as a combined nonmagical Loremaster class.
 



TwoSix

Unserious gamer
Supporter
So, that's what an arcane gish class could look like. Any thoughts?
Spell Strike is very well thought out. I don't see any real shenanigans in there, since the ability specifies "gish spells". That means you can't dip, go wizard and then spam a high level save or die until your attack hits. If anything, it's a trifle on the weak side, since there's no action economy gain and your spending 2 actions to load up a nova attack. (This changes hard at level 11, though.) It does let you use your weapon attack modifier instead of your spell attack modifier, which can be quite beneficial depending on build.

I like that you gave them heavy armor, too many gish concepts I see stop at medium armor which prevents Str builds from being prevalent.

I'm not a huge fan of Imbued Weapon. I'd rather either commit to being an Int-SAD class, or make the class be Str/Dex and casting stat dependent, like a paladin. Imbued Weapon is kind of sadly in the middle, you can't use it enough to really make your build around it, but it's strong enough to not just be a ribbon. It kinda makes me mad, lol.

I don't know if Strike Sustainer is too strong, but it's definitely pretty good.

The 17th level subclass ability mentions "running out of uses of Spell Strike", which doesn't seem possible in the current iteration of the ability, unless I'm missing it.

Somewhat related, I think the class has a few too many abilities that are all on separate recharge timers. The baseline class (no subclass) has 6 abilities on independent rest counters by level 14, which feels like a bit more tracking than is needed.
 

Spell Strike is very well thought out. I don't see any real shenanigans in there, since the ability specifies "gish spells". That means you can't dip, go wizard and then spam a high level save or die until your attack hits. If anything, it's a trifle on the weak side, since there's no action economy gain and your spending 2 actions to load up a nova attack. (This changes hard at level 11, though.) It does let you use your weapon attack modifier instead of your spell attack modifier, which can be quite beneficial depending on build.
Thanks, I worked a bit to properly design it. It's a powerful ability, but I don't think it's OP.
I'm not a huge fan of Imbued Weapon. I'd rather either commit to being an Int-SAD class, or make the class be Str/Dex and casting stat dependent, like a paladin. Imbued Weapon is kind of sadly in the middle, you can't use it enough to really make your build around it, but it's strong enough to not just be a ribbon. It kinda makes me mad, lol.
Do you have any suggestions to tweak or replace it?
I don't know if Strike Sustainer is too strong, but it's definitely pretty good.
I might move it to a later level if it could be a problem.
The 17th level subclass ability mentions "running out of uses of Spell Strike", which doesn't seem possible in the current iteration of the ability, unless I'm missing it.
Ah, thanks for catching that. I've replaced it now.
Somewhat related, I think the class has a few too many abilities that are all on separate recharge timers. The baseline class (no subclass) has 6 abilities on independent rest counters by level 14, which feels like a bit more tracking than is needed.
Okay, I can try to work on that. Any ideas?
 

Saelorn

Hero
Except that eldritch knights suck at gish-ing, and share almost nothing with the class I made.
It's a dude with a sword who occasionally casts spells. Trust me, I know what a gish is.

The only differences between the official Eldritch Knight, and your thing, are a couple of different abilities and some different numbers. More specifically, your version is power crept out the wazoo.
 

It's a dude with a sword who occasionally casts spells. Trust me, I know what a gish is.

The only differences between the official Eldritch Knight, and your thing, are a couple of different abilities and some different numbers. More specifically, your version is power crept out the wazoo.
And there are many other classes and subclasses in 5e that are dudes with swords that cast spells. I know what a gish is, too.

This "thing" has better action economy than an Eldritch Knight, is a blend of a fighter and arcane caster the same way that a paladin is a blend of a fighter and a cleric. Also, of course there are issues with this, it's a rough draft of a homebrew class! What, do you expect me to design an expertly balanced class instantly? The purpose of getting feedback on something is to get help balancing it. If you think there are problems with it, you can give more specific constructive comments, instead of crapping on the idea.
 

dnd4vr

The Smurfiest Wizard Ever!
Here, made a rough draft of the Gish class. I have based some abilities off of the Pathfinder Magus (Spell Strike, Magic Recall), but have also been taking personal liberties while designing it.

Hmm... I wonder if something is up with the post in EnWorld in my browser...

I am only seeing the first three levels and nothing past Defensive Style, but obviously there should be more... :(

1600224513450.png
 

Hmm... I wonder if something is up with the post in EnWorld in my browser...

I am only seeing the first three levels and nothing past Defensive Style, but obviously there should be more... :(

View attachment 126262
That happened to me a few times, it should have a "show more" button there, but it won't show up some times. I had to reload the screen and wait, and it eventually would come. Try that, if that doesn't work, I don't know what will work.
 

Saelorn

Hero
And there are many other classes and subclasses in 5e that are dudes with swords that cast spells. I know what a gish is, too.
Then why would you bother proposing another one? This one has been done to death.
This "thing" has better action economy than an Eldritch Knight, is a blend of a fighter and arcane caster the same way that a paladin is a blend of a fighter and a cleric. Also, of course there are issues with this, it's a rough draft of a homebrew class! What, do you expect me to design an expertly balanced class instantly?
I expect you to not create a class which is conceptually identical to an existing class, but better. That's basic game design theory. First, you should never create something that already exists. Second, you should never create something that's obviously broken, relative to the existing reference point.

If you hate the Eldritch Knight because you think it's too weak, then you should fix it, so everyone knows what you're doing and can critique it accordingly. A homebrew fix operates on a different scale from adding something new, because it tacitly removes the previous version as a comparison.
 

TwoSix

Unserious gamer
Supporter
Thanks, I worked a bit to properly design it. It's a powerful ability, but I don't think it's OP.
Yep, strong mechanic, and balanced enough to be able to be the "core" of the concept. Other ideas should flow out of this.

Just to avoid multiquote:

Imbued Weapon - I'd decide if you want the class to be Int-focused, or Str/Dex focused. If you want Int-focused, Imbued Weapon should be a baseline always-on ability. If Str/Dex, I'd lose the "use Int to attack" part, and have the Imbued Weapon uses drive other class and subclass abilities. If you want both, I'd gate Imbued as either a selectable feature or a subclass feature.

Strike Sustainer - I'd leave as is and let playtesting decide. It's twin spell, but with a major action economy hit and on a spell list that doesn't have a lot of concentration debuffs. It's probably OK.

On trackable abilites, I'd probably make the "detect magic" ability an at-will. It costs an action, I believe, which limits spammability in combat. Imbued Weapon could change depending on what you want to do with it. I might make the "regain spell slot" ability once per short rest rather than prof mod per long rest, easier to track.
 

Then why would you bother proposing another one? This one has been done to death.
Not an arcane half-casting gish in 5e. That's why I made this.
I expect you to not create a class which is conceptually identical to an existing class, but better. That's basic game design theory. First, you should never create something that already exists. Second, you should never create something that's obviously broken, relative to the existing reference point.
I didn't create something that already exists. This is not an eldritch knight, it is distinct. Eldritch Knights get 4 attacks in an action, this only gets 2. Eldritch Knights get action surge, more ability score improvements, and everything else fighters get. This is different. Also, if it's obviously broken, help fix it.
If you hate the Eldritch Knight because you think it's too weak, then you should fix it, so everyone knows what you're doing and can critique it accordingly. A homebrew fix operates on a different scale from adding something new, because it tacitly removes the previous version as a comparison.
I do think that the Eldritch Knight is bad, but I did not design this to be a fix for that. War Clerics exist, and so do Paladins. That is the relationship between the Eldritch Knight and this class, but the other way around.
 

Cadence

Legend
Supporter
I've pondered this briefly once or twice in the past and then found myself thinking it wouldn't be very good.

Re-reading Glen Cook's Dread Empire series has two characters that makes me wonder how it would work though... the spectacularly written Magelin Radetic in the prequels, and then the more superficial Michael Trebilcock at the end of the main sequence and in the sequels. That they apparently teach fencing at the Rebsamen University in Hellin Daimiel would probably be important to making them playable. The former has also has some "rally the troops" skills when pressed and the later is good at being a sneak. (I can't imagine de Camp and Pratt's Harold Shea being nearly as useful without fencing either -- although his magical aptitude helped).

I'm more familiar with 2e and PF than 5e, and in those, I probably would have started with a Bard and nuked the magic, or a Rogue without sneak attack but who could give suggestions to colleagues (like a mini-Warlord).
 

dnd4vr

The Smurfiest Wizard Ever!
@AcererakTriple6

I understand you desire for an "arcane" version of a half-caster, a kin to Paladins (divine) and Rangers (primal), but the last thing I want to see (personally) is more classes in D&D.

It actually got me thinking a bit about going the other route... Make a warrior/half-caster class, with subclasses of "Gish", Paladin, Ranger; where by choosing the subclass you are choosing whether your half-caster is all about arcane, divine, or primal.
 

Mecheon

Adventurer
I've pondered this briefly once or twice in the past and then found myself thinking it wouldn't be very good.
There's two pretty popular DMs Guild one out there so its an archetype people have delved into. I just, haven't tried any of them so can't say how they perform

Unfortunately though, I hear 'scholar' and my MMO destroyed brain immediately thinks "Ah, yes, scholar of Nym. So you'll be throwing out all the heavy hitter spells while your fairy does the healing job, I see there, Green DPS"
 

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