D&D 5E Should 5e have more classes (Poll and Discussion)?

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I just think it is bizarre to fix an under-performing concept by designing a completely new class. Like if I thought the rangers were not working quite as well as I hoped my first step wouldn't certainly be to design a separate huntsman class.

And I wouldn't do that, either. I would just fix the Ranger, like WotC is doing. But, in my opinion, the gish niche will not be filled unless there's a new class. Again, I am not making this as a replacement for the Eldritch Knight, and did not intend for it to do that. It is meant to fill the void of an arcane gish class in 5e.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

My only problem is that I still picture a Ranger as a Fighter with Druidy stuff and Paladin as Figher with Clericy stuff. I always wonder why there aren't d6 full-caster Divines, and then a half-Caster in the middle. (So in PF, you could have the a d6 Ecclesitheurge-like Cleric, the d8 War Priest, and the d10 Paladin).

I wouldn't be opposed to lowering a cleric's hit dice to 1d6, frankly, they would still be good with a lower hit dice. I think most full spellcasters (druids, clerics, and bards) should have a d6 hit dice, spell focused half-casters should have a d8 hit dice (artificers), and martial focused half casters should have a d10 hit dice (1d10).

A ranger is the child of the fighter and druid. The paladin is the child of the cleric and the fighter. The gish class I have designed is the child of the wizard and the fighter. IMO, they don't belong to any of their parent classes, they're distinct, and should be different.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Surgery
Drugmaking
Eectricity
Battlefield tactics
Law
Speechwriting
Truenaming
Frankenstein's Monsters

The last two are 'magic' and electricity is a technology medieval setting probably shouldn't have, even as 'rare' technology (electric bulb was developed in the late 19th century.) As for the others, how do you design a whole class around them? They are just skills or tool proficiencies.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

A ranger is the child of the fighter and druid. The paladin is the child of the cleric and the fighter. The gish class I have designed is the child of the wizard and the fighter. IMO, they don't belong to any of their parent classes, they're distinct, and should be different.

I can see that logic. And it is indeed a bit lopsided that the fighter/clerics and fighter/druids get their full classes, whereas fighter/wizards only get a fighter subclass.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I can see that logic. And it is indeed a bit lopsided that the fighter/clerics and fighter/druids get their full classes, whereas fighter/wizards only get a fighter subclass.

Exactly. I'm glad we can agree on that point, at least.

 

[Minigiant]

The last two are 'magic' and electricity is a technology medieval setting probably shouldn't have, even as 'rare' technology (electric bulb was developed in the late 19th century.) As for the others, how do you design a whole class around them? They are just skills or tool proficiencies.

Well to me Truenaming and Mad Science aren't magic. They are their own forms of knowledge that follow their own rules to create effects.

You could have them be magic in some world or you can say that the presences of magic has warped biology, chemistry, and physics enough to create effects that are impossible on Earth.

As for electricity, so what if we harnassed it recently. There is nothing against a few geniuses brave enough and lucky enough to discover electricity in their medieval era. If fact, based on how electricity was first seen, it would make sense that only a few people could harness and use it as most people would see it as as or even more dangerous than arcane magic.

As for Surgery, Drugmaking Batttlefield tactics, Law, Speechwriting and the like, they would not been their own class. The loremaster would learn applications of them in small bitesized chooseable class features much like invocations. Perhaps at the cost of some "brainy resource".

again, skills in 5e barely define what can be done and what the DC is. It's all up to the DM and the player's opinion and creativity. The loremaster or scholar would allow the group to lock down the effects of some mundane lore of the world to some knowable effect and explain the fantasy of the world should they choose to allow it.

Do the Duskblade and Swordmage have to be their own classes? I could just make a subclass for the Gish for each of them, one getting more spellcasting, and the other getting more fighting power.

Perhaps they can be the same class.
Perhaps you could make a base class gish that gets
•Martial and Simple weapon proficiency
•Light armor profiency
•Fighting style at level 2
•Halfcasting and up to 5th level arcane spells like the paladin and ranger
•Extra attack at level 5
•Some sort of basic Mage-Warrior class feature.

Then you choose a subclass at level 3.

Duskblades get more warrior stuff with heavy armor and shields and maybe a 3rd situational attack.

Swordmages get more magic stuff the aegis of assault teleports

Then you get Staffmaster that goes on a tangent and focuses on skills and fighting with a magic staff.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Perhaps they can be the same class.
Perhaps you could make a base class gish that gets
•Martial and Simple weapon proficiency
•Light armor profiency
•Fighting style at level 2
•Halfcasting and up to 5th level arcane spells like the paladin and ranger
•Extra attack at level 5
•Some sort of basic Mage-Warrior class feature.

Then you choose a subclass at level 3.

Duskblades get more warrior stuff with heavy armor and shields and maybe a 3rd situational attack.

Swordmages get more magic stuff the aegis of assault teleports

Then you get Staffmaster that goes on a tangent and focuses on skills and fighting with a magic staff.

I've already done most of that stuff, but they get heavy armor as a default.

 

[Minigiant]

I've already done most of that stuff, but they get heavy armor as a default.

If rangers don't get heavy armor at base, I don't think the arcane fish should get heavy armor at base.

To me, the heavy armor gish costs a pair of feats or subclass. You must earn the right to no be Dexterity's lapdog, mage.

You kiss her feet or pay her off like the rogue.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Well to me Truenaming and Mad Science aren't magic. They are their own forms of knowledge that follow their own rules to create effects.

You could have them be magic in some world or you can say that the presences of magic has warped biology, chemistry, and physics enough to create effects that are impossible on Earth.

Then you're just basically calling magic not-magic. If you are able to do fantastic and implausible stuff by manipulating the magical nature of the setting, then that's magic to me. But if this works for you then artificer already is the class that does what you want.

As for electricity, so what if we harnassed it recently. There is nothing against a few geniuses brave enough and lucky enough to discover electricity in their medieval era. If fact, based on how electricity was first seen, it would make sense that only a few people could harness and use it as most people would see it as as or even more dangerous than arcane magic.

Once the electrify is discovered it stops being medieval era. It is completely implausible that this wouldn't happen. That's the thing with science and technology. They produce repeatable effects that anyone can use.

As for Surgery, Drugmaking Batttlefield tactics, Law, Speechwriting and the like, they would not been their own class. The loremaster would learn applications of them in small bitesized chooseable class features much like invocations. Perhaps at the cost of some "brainy resource".

again, skills in 5e barely define what can be done and what the DC is. It's all up to the DM and the player's opinion and creativity. The loremaster or scholar would allow the group to lock down the effects of some mundane lore of the world to some knowable effect and explain the fantasy of the world should they choose to allow it.

Sounds to me that you are dissatisfied with 5E skill system (understandable) and want to build a parallel system to represent the same thing (less so.)

 

[Minigiant]

Then you're just basically calling magic not-magic. If you are able to do fantastic and implausible stuff by manipulating the magical nature of the setting, then that's magic to me. But if this works for you then artificer already is the class that does what you want.

I'm calling science fiction not magic. I am fine with a class who can harness low powered science fiction.

Once the electrify is discovered it stops being medieval era. It is completely implausible that this wouldn't happen. That's the thing with science and technology. They produce repeatable effects that anyone can use.

One, I'm not even saying the use of electricity is widespread. It took a while for electricity to be accepted and this in modern eras. Imagine how the dumb hicks and suspicious nobles of typical D&D settings would treat electricity. Especially if proper safety measures were not discovered. Half treated like people treated open warlocks.

Two, of course it would have repeatable effects. So does arcane magic. And there is only 1 popular D&D setting that make arcane magic widespread. Professor Plum discovering electricity isn't going to have ever street lit up by lightbulbs in a decade. D&D already has light spells.

Three, D&D already has arcane and divine magic competing with mundane technology. And it is still medieval based. I doubt adding flashlights, roids, and Frankenstien's monsters is going to kick out the mages who litterally laugh at conservation of energy.