Should a DM change an official NPC?

[Christoph the Magus]

I tried to resist posting this because it's going to come out as a slam, which isn't my intention. But here goes.

You are playing D&D the way I played it in High School. Back then I thought that TSR could do no wrong and I thought Drizzt was kewl. My group wasn't interested in doing anything creative, we pretty much just wanted to relive moments from FR novels. We took the exact same approach that you describe. If a new sourecebook came out for FR, we bought it and changed the campaign to fit the new official concept. We ran into Drizzt and Elminster and god knows who else. We thought it was great.

Looking back, I can't believe how lame our game was. I couldn't sit through 1 session like that now, although we gamed that way for almost 2 years. Your description of your gaming is like what would have happened if my old gaming group had stuck together and never grown up.

Anyway, I really don't mean to slam you. If you're having fun, that's great. But what you're describing is something that mostly rabid fanboys (like my group used to be) are going to enjoy. Which you'll find plenty of on the WoTC boards, so I'm sure that you're position will get plenty of support.

 

[Grazzt]

I enjoy reading this website for WOTC news. I started reading it like most people when it was Eric Noah's site. I also read the messageboards, although not as much as the WOTC boards, but I never realized the independent/anti-WOTC attitude of these messageboards.

This is about the most insane piece of crap I've read today. Anti-WotC? Yeah ok. Let's see, does that mean that Monte Cook, SKR, Anthony Valterra, etc are all anti-WotC since they post here as well?

I am going to post this very same topic at the official boards, and see what I get. I think the responses should be quite interesting.

I am sure many more will agree with you there. Like I said before, there are a lot of fanboys on that site that are afraid to speak their true feelings about things and go along with whatever is said.

Posting about WOTC at enworld.org is like posting a question about Jimmy Carter at the RNC messageboards. There is no point to it.

So- because no one agreed with your opinion, its time to "take your ball and go home?"

 

[Buttercup]

A person's education usually doesnt impress me either. I posted the demographics of my gaming group earlier to help explain to everyone where I am coming from. You certainly dont need a higher education to play D&D. Hell...just look at the quality of writing myself and others post to this messageboard

Well, ok. It sure looked to me like you were trying to set yourself up as older, wiser and generally superior. That's why I posted about the education level of my players. I just wanted to demonstrate that if you want to call trump suit, you need to consider that someone else might be holding a higher card.

As it turns out, 'where you're coming from' is the same place as the rest of us, rendering it completely irrevelant.

 

[barsoomcore]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Yeah, but...

He expressed his opinion on FR, and I expressed my opinion on home-brewed campaigns. Both opinions are just as valid, because at heart they are just opinions and cannot be proven or disproven.

No, they're not. Mark Chance can offer reasons for his opinion. You cannot. Mark Chance has an opinion on the quality of a single campaign. It is possible that he has investigated this campaign enough that he can make an informed opinion.

The same is not true of your opinion, I am afraid. Your opinion is less valid because you cannot support it. For your opinion to have ANY value you would have had to investigated EVERY alternative. You clearly have not done so, and so your opinion is making you look foolish. Mark's opinion will only make him look foolish if it becomes known that he does not have enough information to be justified.

I insulted your campaign?

I am amused that you think this is the issue. I'll just point out that ignoring people's arguments and focussing on petty details is yet another way to get people to stop paying attention to you.

I, too, dub thee troll. Begone.

 

[roytheodd]

I find it most curious that here we're talking about a game in which people can play what they want and customize how they see fit, yet when someone opts to play what they want and not to customize we're all fascinated and some of us are condescending.

 

[herald]

I enjoy reading this website for WOTC news. I started reading it like most people when it was Eric Noah's site. I also read the messageboards, although not as much as the WOTC boards, but I never realized the independent/anti-WOTC attitude of these messageboards. Thats ok though. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and each one is as valid as the other. I guess I shouldnt come here to chat about the value of "official" campaigns versus OGL campaigns, or "official rules clarifactions" versus home-brewed resolutions. It seems like the WOTC boards will provide better answers to such questions. I am going to post this very same topic at the official boards, and see what I get. I think the responses should be quite interesting.

But you're not chating about "WOTC vs OGL". You just bashing any and everyone else. Stop playing the victim. WOTC knows that people rarely play the game without aome kind of modification. If it didn't feel that people liked departures from the norm, it wouldn't have tried Ravenloft, Spelljammer, Darksun, Birthright, or new campaign world created by someone out in the general public in the form of a contest.

 

[barsoomcore]

I find it most curious that here we're talking about a game in which people can play what they want and customize how they see fit, yet when someone opts to play what they want and not to customize we're all fascinated and some of us are condescending.

I'd just like to point out that I have actually asked greymarch to explain his reasoning. He has not done so. I have no problem with the way he and his friends play the game, and have said so.

I am fascinated, and have explained my reasons why, as well as noted that I may very well be the weirdo. I think it's natural to be fascinated by that which flies in the face of your expectations. It's certainly a better reaction than disgust or outrage.

I don't believe I have been condescending to greymarch on account of his style of play.

And I'm willing to point out in great detail how wrong he is to claim that his opinion on EVERY alternate campaign world is worse than FR is as valid as Mark Chance's opinion that FR sucks. I don't believe it's condescending to disagree with someone.

 

[IceBear]

I enjoy reading this website for WOTC news. I started reading it like most people when it was Eric Noah's site. I also read the messageboards, although not as much as the WOTC boards, but I never realized the independent/anti-WOTC attitude of these messageboards. Thats ok though. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and each one is as valid as the other. I guess I shouldnt come here to chat about the value of "official" campaigns versus OGL campaigns, or "official rules clarifactions" versus home-brewed resolutions. It seems like the WOTC boards will provide better answers to such questions. I am going to post this very same topic at the official boards, and see what I get. I think the responses should be quite interesting.

Posting about WOTC at enworld.org is like posting a question about Jimmy Carter at the RNC messageboards. There is no point to it.

OMG - you really are a deluded fellow aren't you. Again, you're turning a few people saying that they don't like the FR (and many don't - I read the novels just because they're D&D novels but I'm not a fan of the game setting 'as is') into we all hate WotC. If that's your attitude, please stay on the official boards and keep your bigotry to yourself. If, on the other hand, you accept that other people modify offical rules and don't slam us for it, then please stay and contribute to the community because I really don't care how YOU play YOUR game, just don't tell me how I should play MINE.

IceBear

 

[Anabstercorian]

Honestly, people, you're acting like children!

Hey, all of you people calling Greymarch a 'troll,' go back over the thread and read the way you've been responding to him. You've accused him of great deal, but from where I'm standing you're being extremely inhospitable! He expressed his opinion about his own playing style - So they like playing an official FR campaign! Give him a break! They have their own definition of what an official FR campaign is, and I'm sure that they know how to make it fun.
And regarding his Turkish Prison Food comment - That was in response to an open troll! He wasn't thinking about each of your individual campaign settings when he made that comment, he was just defending his preferred campaign setting with a witty zinger.

He has NOT been rude, he has NOT been especially confrontational, and you people are acting like gang-member-wanna-be's defending their turf. I expect more of most of you. You people are some of the high and mighties of the board and you're acting like total jerks.

 

[drnuncheon]

greymarch, I hate to tell you this, but you are already playing in a homebrew game.

As soon as your DM touches it, it's homebrew. As soon as he puts in one of those NPCs from the book, it's homebrew, because it's his take on the NPC. Unless your DM is Ed Greenwood, the way your DM plays Elminster is not going to be 100% the same as the "official" way. His personality will be different, his tactics will be different - maybe not by a lot, but the differences will be there.

As soon as your DM makes up a name of a tiny hamlet (or makes up a tiny hamlet!), or makes up a name for an inn (because the names of the inns in Sharburg haven't been detailed) or makes up the name of the innkeeper's daughter, you're in a homebrew.

As soon as your DM makes up an adventure, you're in a homebrew, because those events didn't happen in the "official" Realms.

I guess that what I (and, apparently, a lot of other people) don't understand is...why is it so desirable to be "official"? What does it give you? A warm fuzzy feeling that you're playing "the real way"? Some kind of bragging rights? Why are some changes or additions or whatever apparently OK but others aren't.

Just out of curiosity, why don't you play Living Realms (or whatever the "official" FR Living campaign is?) That would seem to me to be even more "official" than anything you could do on your own.

J