SHOULD a monk be allowed to use shields?
Shields are armor and therefore off limits to monks. I could be persuaded to allow a Timbe/Buckler feat to allow the use of a buckler only.
I figure that the Okinawan Karate forms use on so why not plus it would cost a feat for +1 (unless there is magic of course) Ac vs One oppnent which is on par with dodge.
I figure that the Okinawan Karate forms use on so why not plus it would cost a feat for +1 (unless there is magic of course) Ac vs One oppnent which is on par with dodge.
IceBear said:Ranger - that about the passage in the monk description was what the other thread was about
In the end, Monte stated that the designers intended for shields to be armor and therefore not to be used by monks.
But...we're not supposed to discuss that in this thread
IceBear
I didn't see the old discussion, but I hope someone pointed out that shields grant an ARMOR bonus (now aren't you glad they didn't call it a Shield bonus, after all
). You would think that would practically seal the argument right there...
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Artoomis
First Post
See Armor and Shield for the full discussion on whether shields = armor.
CRGreathouse
Community Supporter
In a wild attempt to bring the thread back on topic...
I don't think they should be allowed to use shields, becuase their AC is already insane at higher levels, and this will add at least 2 to their armor class (at no cost). What's more, it doesn't seem to fit well with flurry of blows.
I don't think they should be allowed to use shields, becuase their AC is already insane at higher levels, and this will add at least 2 to their armor class (at no cost). What's more, it doesn't seem to fit well with flurry of blows.
Pielorinho
Iron Fist of Pelor
I was the one who suggested that defending oneself with a shield is different from defending oneself with Wisdom. So here's what I would rule:
A monk can use a shield, sure. But when she does so, she loses her wisdom bonus to AC. That bonus represents her ability to dodge blows entirely; effectively using a shield requires interposing the shield between her opponent and her body, not dodging. If she chooses to put the shield up in the way of the blow, she's choosing not to step out of the way of the blow entirely.
In limited circumstances, therefore, a monk might want to use a shield (she finds a +4 buckler, for example, or she's under the effect of a wisdom-draining poison). But most of the time, it ain't worth it.
The game's all about choices, after all.
I'm not superfamiliar with the monk's special abilities; from what I know, I'd not limit any other monk abilities when a shield is used. However, if there are other special abilities based around the concept of dodging blows entirely, I'd disallow their use when a shield is being used.
Daniel
A monk can use a shield, sure. But when she does so, she loses her wisdom bonus to AC. That bonus represents her ability to dodge blows entirely; effectively using a shield requires interposing the shield between her opponent and her body, not dodging. If she chooses to put the shield up in the way of the blow, she's choosing not to step out of the way of the blow entirely.
In limited circumstances, therefore, a monk might want to use a shield (she finds a +4 buckler, for example, or she's under the effect of a wisdom-draining poison). But most of the time, it ain't worth it.
The game's all about choices, after all.
I'm not superfamiliar with the monk's special abilities; from what I know, I'd not limit any other monk abilities when a shield is used. However, if there are other special abilities based around the concept of dodging blows entirely, I'd disallow their use when a shield is being used.
Daniel
Arcane Runes Press
First Post
I'll reprint what I wrote in the first Monk/Shield thread.
Well, there are at least a pair of shields that monks should (in a perfect world ) be able to use:
1) Rattan Shield- The woven rattan shield is a staple of Southern style Kung-fu. It's very lightweight and steeply rounded (almost the exact shape of Captain America's shield) and designed to actually AID martial artists in tumbling to close with long poled weapons (specifically spear and tiger fork). The shield and butterfly sword set is a famous one in Hung-gar style.
2) Paired Tiger Steel Shields- Very rare. These are lightweight, narrow (1' wide, perhaps 3' long) shields that are used as both weapons and shields. They come to a long, razor sharp spearpoint that projects perhaps 6" past the hand and are used to stab.
Do I think monks should be able to use normal shields? Probably not, simply for game balance reasons. Should they be able to use Rattan shields and Paired Tiger Steel Shields? Sure, with the appropriate EWPs, as Paired Tiger Steel Shields especially are practically the textbook definition of a Exotic Weapon.
Well, there are at least a pair of shields that monks should (in a perfect world ) be able to use:
1) Rattan Shield- The woven rattan shield is a staple of Southern style Kung-fu. It's very lightweight and steeply rounded (almost the exact shape of Captain America's shield) and designed to actually AID martial artists in tumbling to close with long poled weapons (specifically spear and tiger fork). The shield and butterfly sword set is a famous one in Hung-gar style.
2) Paired Tiger Steel Shields- Very rare. These are lightweight, narrow (1' wide, perhaps 3' long) shields that are used as both weapons and shields. They come to a long, razor sharp spearpoint that projects perhaps 6" past the hand and are used to stab.
Do I think monks should be able to use normal shields? Probably not, simply for game balance reasons. Should they be able to use Rattan shields and Paired Tiger Steel Shields? Sure, with the appropriate EWPs, as Paired Tiger Steel Shields especially are practically the textbook definition of a Exotic Weapon.
Artoomis
First Post
Ristamar said:
That's what armor check penalties are for. So that inappropriate shields would penalize him, but appropriate ones (call the buckler the very rough D&D equivalent to monk-type shields) would not.
Within the rules (no new items or proficiencies), you could allow shields and get very nearly what you guys think is appropriate. Not quite, but nearly.
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