Should Dungeon and Polyheadron be in the same magazine

[kamosa]

Fair enough. And thanks for the reply.

I do want to say that we have some VERY exciting things planned for Dungeon (and Dragon) in the very near future. I do hope that you can be persuaded to give it another look. I'll think you'll be surprised--pleasantly. They'll be more details forthcoming in these very board, I would assume.

Pax,

Keith Strohm
Vice President
Paizo Publishing, LLC

I look forward to it. Keep us informed.

 

[Dismas]

In an ideal world these should be two seperate magazines; Dungeon concentrating on 3.5e and Polyhedron covering all other aspects of d20 gaming. That would be my prefered option as it would mean I could stop buying a large chunk of information I have never used (Dungeon). However we don't live in an ideal world and to get the articles I want I must buy the combined magazine.

I had a Dungeon subscription from about issue 70 through to the start of 3e coverage (present from the RPGA), the problem was that the majority of the people in my group also recevied Dungeon magazine. As result we have never run a singe adventure within its covers, it is the same problem we have had with any published adventures.

In the good old days of OD&D / 1e it was different. In the UK getting hold of gaming materials was more difficult, most of the players were at school, had little income and (for teenagers) to get to any shop that sold gaming material involved a high level of pre-planing. In reaility this meant that the GM (with a job and car) was the only one that had the ability to purchase adventures.

I don't play 3e/3.5e anymore, GM boredom and general anonyance with people that telling me what can and can not be in a DnD game. I play the mini-games, d20 modern and third party non-fantasy d20 as well as other systems. The mini games showcase what can be done with the d20 system, Hijinx was much discussed and praised on the likes of RPG.net, an site that doesn't tend to talk up the d20 system.

These days I think long and hard about purchasing Dragon or Dungeon, there has to be something of value in them. Dragon I am currently only buying for the Ebberron previews (a world that may, in the long run, bring me back to fantasy) , Dungeon for the mini-games and d20 bits. If an issue is sealed I don't buy it and I have a FLGS that will put back copies of each for me on spec and if I don't want it on the shelf it goes.

That said, I understand that Paizo is a company and MUST make a profit if it is to survive. To make a profit it has to go with what the majority of its readership wants and if I am not in the majority then OK, I'm married, I'm used to it, I'll move on.

Pax.

 

[Felon]

Can you? I'm not doubting you, but I'm very surprised. I have never seen an issue of Dungeon or even Dragon at anyplace other than an FLGS (except of course in my mailbox).

Well, Waldenbooks is a chain of bookstores that has carried both publications for a long time, but they did that even before the days of high-gloss electronic publishing. That goes back to a period where Waldenbooks was foolish enough to get into bed with TSR in some sort of distribution arrangement.

 

[Felon]

As to why Paizo publishes Dungeon in color, there are a few reasons. One, of course, is that we can provide a higher quality reading experience of the magazine and a higher utility value to our consumers.

Well, sometimes that goes overboard. Many of the maps in today's Dungeon are these high-resolution 3D-rendered digitalized pictures that may look cool in color, but it ought to occur to someone editing the mag that when it comes to making photocopies that can be handed out, or even held up and shown to someone sitting at the other end of a table, nothing beats black-and-white line renderings.

Another reason has to do with the fact that a good portion of Dungeon's sales come from bookstores, where it has to compete on the shelf with electronic gaming magazines and a plethora of high gloss products.

A "good portion"? That's surprising. I wasn't aware that many bookstores (outside of the aforementioned Waldenbooks) carried these mags. Interesting.

Also, Paizo does make some money selling advertising, and advertisers are more likely to place an add in a high-quality color magazine than a black and white, non-glossy periodical.

In this matter, I can only bow to your expertise.

I'm also curious as to what you consider ridiculuously expensive, but that might be better served in a different thread.

Anything over five bucks and you're reaching a point of diminishing returns. That's why I have subscriptions, although I often wind up not using any material from some issues, so I suppose that's not as efficient as it initially seemed.

Anyway, I am certainly enjoying and reading this thread with interest.

Glad to hear from you.

 

[Mighty Halfling]

Count me in the camp that enjoys most of Polyhedron! In particular, I'm a sucker for the mini-games of which there are far too few of lately.
On the other hand, I hate Polys that focus on D&D and D&D mini-campaigns, such as Dark Sun and Spelljammer. Give me mini-games not jazzed up "homebrew" settings!
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For those who don't like paying for Poly ... Do you subscribe to Time, Newsweek, Rolling Stone and Entertainment Weekly and read every single article? Some how I doubt it, why should you expect that every single article in Dungeon/Polyhedron should appeal to you too?
Yes, I know the others are mass market magazines with a broad appeal, but I bet that's what Paizo is striving for too.
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And Paizo: Please, please don't ever consider dropping the color interior.
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My local Borders Books & Music store carries Dungeon. Also, a locally-owned magazine shop carries it. I try picking up an issue at both every once and a while to keep them stocking it.

 

[tmaaas]

I subscribed to Dungeon with the advent of the Adventure Path (overall, the Shackled City series is awesome). I've been very pleased with it so far. The Poly side is not as much use to me, but I don't mind it being there.

About my only concern is the trend towards more/smaller for modules. I like variety: some longer, some smaller. One issue give me 4 adventures, another 2. No problem.

Of course, I'd happily pay another $2/issue if I could get more content (20+ pages/issue). But I suspect I'd be in minority with this opinion. (O.K., I'd really love to see 180 pg. issues every month . Oh yeah!)

I should also say that I've liked where Erik's been taking the magazine over the last half year. I think he's done a bang-up job.

 

[Altalazar]

I've never really read poly. Ok, to be honest, lately, I've not read even the Dungeons - been too busy to game for over two years now. Though that has finally changed.

But it never really bothered me that it was in there. I never felt like I was getting less value for Dungeon - which is already such a huge value - so many modules, every month now, for such a low cost. Can't beat that.

 

[BryonD]

For those who don't like paying for Poly ... Do you subscribe to Time, Newsweek, Rolling Stone and Entertainment Weekly and read every single article? Some how I doubt it, why should you expect that every single article in Dungeon/Polyhedron should appeal to you too?

Who says that we read every single thing in Dungeon before?

Your question shows a lack of understanding of the issue.

Assume that the average Rolling Stone Subscriber reads 60% of the magazine.
Now, RS decides to split their magazine 50/50 with a new topic that they assume will have some cross-over appeal to their existing base. Obviously, some fraction of the existing base will NOT be interested in the new content. For that fraction that valuable portion of the magazine just dropped from 60% to 30%.

Expecting to like everything in the magazine would be absurd, and in this case is a completely flawed analysis.

Voting with your wallet in response to a change in content value is nothing but reasonable.

 

[Sir Whiskers]

Basically, it comes down to economics.

1. CASHFLOW. A monthly magazine receives payment from distributors twice as often as a bi-monthly magazine. That helps the company in more ways than I can list.

2. ADVERTISING. A monthly magazine has (theoretically) twice as many opportunities to sell ads.

If I could switch the magazine back to bi-montly I'd do it in an instant. Paizo doesn't make decisions with the sole criteria of "how much easier does this make Erik's job," unfortunately. But since we're in business to make money, that's probably a good thing.

Erik, thanks for the response. I completely forgot about advertising. I wonder what percentage of Dungeon's operating capital comes from advertising vs. subscriptions? (No, I'm not really asking) Whatever the figure, I can understand that getting more ad revenue matters.

Unfortunately, I think one thing that has happened is (by going monthly and reducing each issue's size) the perception that we're getting less has been greatly strengthened. Perception may not be reality, but it's usually more important.

I have two issues left on my subscription, and I'm still on the fence. Page counts aside, I just don't feel like I'm getting my money's worth. This is not a criticism of the magazine's staff - as has been said, production values have increased. Basically it comes down to, for whatever reason, I just don't use as many newer adventures as I do older ones. Whether or not that's due to the changes in the magazine, it's a concern when I have to decide how to spend my gaming dollars.

I do hope Dungeon weathers this storm - it's been a class publication for many years and I'd like to see it continue. Good luck.

 

[Mighty Halfling]

Dubble post