D&D 5E (2024) Should full casters and Monks have one weapon mastery?

[mellored]

It doesn't.

Cleave deals 2d6+Str to a second target within 5'
Green-Flame Blade deals 1d8+Cha to a second target within 5'.

There is also Acid Splash, Fireball and plenty of other AoE spells to damage two targets.

Without having the Cleave ability the Cantrip doesn't do much more than a regular fighter with Cleave could do.

That's a good thing.

Also, I would of gone EK of Valor bard so you get the extra attack + cantrip

 

[Guest 7037866]

"More fun" and "OP" aren't the same thing. ;-)

They aren't mutually exclusive, either.

In this case, "more fun" for you = "OP" for me.

See my comments above.

Same.

 

[mellored]

Rangers got a defensive feature for some reason.

Do they end up being tougher than other martials?

But no. Grandmasteries would be separate from class and part of equipment. Possibly simplifying Masteries by making them more powerful and reliable.

Then you would need to remove the class specific abilities.

Or use a feat.

Weapon grandmaster.
Prerequisite: weapon master, multiple attacks.
+1 Str or + 1Dex
Select one of the following: you always have that weapon mastery prepared and gain an additional benefit. You can take this feat more than once but must choose a different option each time.
Cleave: You can use Cleave twice per turn.
Nick: you can use nick twice per turn.
Vex: you also get advantage if you miss.
...

 

[Ashrym]

I like the general idea of "grandmasteries" but I would probably restrict it to barbarians and fighters.

 

[Minigiant]

The uniqueness come from their ability to mix spell lists.

That form of uniqueness is dangerously close to over stepping others if not handled correctly.

Over the years and editions bards have had many unique spells. WotC keeps giving them away to clerics and wizards. They don't need unique spells, however; they need a spell list that suits the flavor of the class

Yeah they should not have done that.

Turning them into mix and match full casters is 1990s limited disc space video game RPG design.

Bards should have many actual song spells and dance spells.

Let's not excuse WOTC's blatant wizard favoritism.

Or promote more of it in the community.

 

[Ashrym]

That form of uniqueness is dangerously close to over stepping others if not handled correctly.

This is one of the reasons I think the current version of magical secrets works. Bard spell preparation is never going going to consume the cleric, druid, or wizard lists regardless of access because of their different spell preparation mechanics even before we look at class and subclass features; and bards cannot step on the toes of those other classes because other lists were removed from magical secrets.

The bard class essentially builds a limited list from a huge selection. That limited list is important in the distinction here.

If I were to rank spellcasters I would have clerics, druids, sorcerers, and wizards definitely above bards. I would place warlocks above bards too for better damage options and at-will spells in invocations, but magical secrets does become better than mystic arcanum later on so it's iffy. 10th level is also a long way off to even start. ;-)

On topic, I wouldn't give any of them free weapon mastery. A warlock adding it with an invocation somehow then sure. Other major spellcasters can use one of the other methods that already exist.

 

[mellored]

I'd be fine with bards being half casters and having access to cleric/wizard/druid spells from level 1.

I think it fits their jack of all trades theme better.

Probably add in some at-will bard song they can do as a bonus action. Start with bard level THP or 1d4 damage bonus to one target, and scale from there. Combining effects at 5, 11, and 17.

 

[Minigiant]

This is one of the reasons I think the current version of magical secrets works. Bard spell preparation is never going going to consume the cleric, druid, or wizard lists regardless of access because of their different spell preparation mechanics even before we look at class and subclass features; and bards cannot step on the toes of those other classes because other lists were removed from magical secrets.

The bard class essentially builds a limited list from a huge selection. That limited list is important in the distinction here.

If I were to rank spellcasters I would have clerics, druids, sorcerers, and wizards definitely above bards. I would place warlocks above bards too for better damage options and at-will spells in invocations, but magical secrets does become better than mystic arcanum later on so it's iffy. 10th level is also a long way off to even start. ;-)

I just find it a bit jarring that for 10 levels the bard has a strong flavor and feels like it's own class and then has 10 levels where it's just a bootleg version of every other class.

On topic, I wouldn't give any of them free weapon mastery. A warlock adding it with an invocation somehow then sure. Other major spellcasters can use one of the other methods that already exist

I think masteries are best where it is where it cost a feet or invocation and full casters would never take it for power due to the course and will only do it for flavor.

For months I can maybe say have certain sub classes give and weapon Mastery in a single weapon. However the D&D month is heavily skewed to unarm strikes and the monks unarmed strikes are tied to its own class, class level, and class features which give their own bonuses.

 

[Ashrym]

I just find it a bit jarring that for 10 levels the bard has a strong flavor and feels like it's own class and then has 10 levels where it's just a bootleg version of every other class.

Except it's not a bootleg version of every class.

The only thing magical secrets does is open up the spell list to better enable selecting spells that suit that bard's flavor. When we just went through the playtest feedback that was one of the big pieces of feedback for bards. Players definitely wanted the broad list, magical secrets, and lore bards to have more magical secrets.

I would even argue magical secrets is literally "dabbling" in spells and the magic of other classes. It's obvious when playing and leveling up bards that they definitely cannot select everything. 2024 even slowed down the access to higher level spells known significantly.

A player is definitely better of playing a cleric, druid, or wizard over a bard because a bard is never going to exceed or replicate those classes at magic. Bards are more about customizing a theme as opposed to not having one.

 

[Mort]

Monks in 2024 are crazy OP as everyone knows.

You've seen one in play then?

Because the math I've seen shows they're good now but certainly not OP.

And the little bit I've seen played (low level, through lvl 3 so far) doesn't show OP at all yet.

Still don't think they should get weapon masteries.