D&D (2024) Should full casters and Monks have one weapon mastery?

[UngeheuerLich]

I'd take the ranger capstone over balance suggestions in the OP or further down this thread...

Of course some things would be cool. Of course people like moar stuff. But make stuff too good and it narrows gameplay way more than something that is not good enough.

If casters get easy access to martial stuff without paying any cost, it is just OP.

So if people want the fighter things, just take a level of fighter. The price is not that high, but it takes away a bit from what you are best at. Casting spells.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

You've seen one in play then?

Because the math I've seen shows they're good now but certainly not OP.

And the little bit I've seen played (low level, through lvl 3 so far) doesn't show OP at all yet.

Still don't think they should get weapon masteries.

Their deflect blow should scale with martial arts die. It would make it a bit less immunity at low level, but most importantly allows every monk feature be rolled with the same dice.

 

[Minigiant]

Except it's not a bootleg version of every class.

The only thing magical secrets does is open up the spell list to better enable selecting spells that suit that bard's flavor. When we just went through the playtest feedback that was one of the big pieces of feedback for bards. Players definitely wanted the broad list, magical secrets, and lore bards to have more magical secrets.

I would even argue magical secrets is literally "dabbling" in spells and the magic of other classes. It's obvious when playing and leveling up bards that they definitely cannot select everything. 2024 even slowed down the access to higher level spells known significantly.

A player is definitely better of playing a cleric, druid, or wizard over a bard because a bard is never going to exceed or replicate those classes at magic. Bards are more about customizing a theme as opposed to not having one.

But the other classes have some classes that focus onto the themes directly.

Bards currently excel at taking a theme that hasn't been supported yet or by being a bootleg version of a theme that is already supported and another subclass and throwing in a few spells outside of the theme.

But back on topic no wiz and clerics should not get weapon masteries by default.

But a 10th level fighter or barbarian should get super topple and just knock people down if they hit and speed up the game due to no saving throw being made at all. Or cause previous wounds if they hit with a gradmastered weapon.

 

[ECMO3]

Cleave deals 2d6+Str to a second target within 5'
Green-Flame Blade deals 1d8+Cha to a second target within 5'.

Ok there are three errors here.

First Cleave only does 1d12 with a Greataxe or 1d10 with a Glaive. Those are the only two weapons that have that property, there are no 2d6 weapons with it.

Second Cleave does not add Strength. You only get the weapon damage, not the modifier damage

Third if you don't have the cleave mastery you can't use Cleave. You would only get the Green Flame Blade damage in that case.

A single class 5th level Bladelock wielding a Greataxe without the mastery feat who uses Green Flame Blade only does the Green Flame Blade damage. If they get the mastery feat and the Agonizing Blast Invocation then they would get the 1d8+2xCharisma plus another 1d12 through Cleave with another hit, but they would need both of those things.

Ironically the only Class that can do both secondary Green Flame Blade damage and Cleave without resorting to a feat is a martial, specifically a Fighter with the Eldritch Knight subclass.

There is also Acid Splash, Fireball and plenty of other AoE spells to damage two targets.

Cleave does not work with any of those spells. I believe the only spells that Cleave works with are Steel Wind Strike, Booming Blade, Green Flame Blade and Truestrike and again only if you have the mastery.

Also, I would of gone EK of Valor bard so you get the extra attack + cantrip

Valor Bards don't get mastery.

 

[ECMO3]

You've seen one in play then?

Because the math I've seen shows they're good now but certainly not OP.

And the little bit I've seen played (low level, through lvl 3 so far) doesn't show OP at all yet.

Still don't think they should get weapon masteries.

I have seen one in play through level 7. They have not been OP in our game. The player playing a Monk usually plays a full caster and he feels the Monk is weaker than a full caster would be (and I generally agree). He did get the mastery feat FWIW.

 

[Tonguez]

No spellcasters get spell mastery they not need the martials toys

 

[ECMO3]

wake me when the martials get the cool spell effects, until then this is a resounding ‘no’

Divine Smite, Wrathful Smite, Find Steed, Destructive Wave, Goodberry, Spike Growth, Summon Fey, Dispel Magic, Conjure Woodland Beings .... and that is before we even bring up Shadow Monks, Arcane Tricksters and Eldritch Knights

So I guess I should have woken you up around 10 years ago?

 

[Scribe]

Divine Smite, Wrathful Smite, Find Steed, Destructive Wave, Goodberry, Spike Growth, Summon Fey, Dispel Magic, Conjure Woodland Beings .... and that is before we even bring up Arcane Tricksters and Eldritch Knights

So I guess I should have woken you up around 10 years ago?

All spells?

 

[ECMO3]

All spells?

Yes they are all spells. Martials have had "cool spells" since the first 5E rules were published and under the 2024 rules martials have the most exclusive spell lists in the game.

 

[Scribe]

Yes they are all spells. Martials have had spells since the first 5E rules were published.

When people are talking about 'Martial Abilities' they are not talking about accessing spells, or jumping through multi-class soup builds, or leveraging caster feats.

They mean, being a Fighter, or a Barbarian, or Rogue, that doesnt use spells.