Should I Ban Tanglefoot Bags?

[Diirk]

I know. Compare the numbers that result from the two effects.
-blarg

While some of the side effects of enervation are comparatively minor (the loss of attack, saves etc) the things to be worried about are the loss of spells (if a caster) and the possibility of dying due to too many negative levels.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

compare 2nd level spells with that effect. oops level 2 spells like Touch of Idiocy, or level 1 spells like Ray of Enfeeblement break that third level spell by comparison. 1 shot from ray of enfeeblement could have had the same effect in this situation. i dont see how you can compaire enervation with a tangle foot bag. Tangle foot bags are a bit too strong, but they are broken becuse they are like enervation? you know enervation can kill on its own right? and that it has no save? i think web or entangle could have had the same effect in the encounter, given a reflex save that might have been failed with the tangle foot bag.

 

[bestone]

If the price was different, then ok, prices for things are wonkey in 3rd.

As has been pointed out before, a 10 foot ladder costs 1/4 the amount of a 10 foot pole, wow!

Edit - Then maybey! they are just to readilly available and cheap as is (and you get a lot of money later)

 

[Dross]

If a tanglefoot bag is such an effective weapon, everyone able to will use it. How many more NPCs are there than PCs?

If the tanglefoot bag trick is used often enough, any enemy that has time to learn what the PCs do will know and counter or "do unto them" the tactic.

 

[Celebrim]

A DC 15 'Reflex Partial' save is pretty tough, since you are still -4 Dex, -2 to attack, and move half speed for on average 5 rounds.

The main thing that strikes is me is that without magic, this seems to imply a really big bag. Make it semi-heavy (10 lbs or something), to deter loading up with these things.

Drop the DC of the reflex save to 10, drop the range increment to 5', lose the 1/2 speed penalty entirely and have the successful save leave you at -2 Dex, -1 to attack.

 

[Stalker0]

I love tanglefoot bags, but they are pretty strong. I'd up the cost. But frankly I wish more alchemical items did stuff like this, the way it goes by 2nd or 3rd level if it isn't magic its crap, and that's no good imo.

 

[Twowolves]

I believe that as I first opened my 3rd ed PHB and perused the equipment section, this was the first thing to which I said "nuh-uh, not in my game" and have never had a problem since. Shortly thereafter, most all of the "alchemical" items followed suit.

Yeah, a 1st or 2nd level spell can do the same thing. Fighters and rogues don't typically cast a lot of 1st and 2nd level spells, however.

 

[Drowbane]

Is it just me, or are tanglefoot bags really annoying? I've had them used against me as a player and now that I'm a GM, I'm having them used against my bad guys. If they don't have a slashing weapon, a monster strength score, or some alcohol, they are just dead in the water (or very slow - if they make their Reflex saves). A tanglefoot bag literally killed one of my Bosses because the boss was an elderly cleric who wielded a club, had no Strength score, and a crappy Reflex save. (The PCs just stood 10 feet away and shot him full of arrows while he was helplessly stuck to the ground.)

I'm seriously thinking about just banning them in my game. Has anyone else done the same? Does anyone think banning them would be a cruel injustice the likes of which the world has never seen?

Sound off!

I've disallowed "standard alchemical items" (with the exception of tindertwigs) since 3e's release. They just don't fit in *my* D&D campaign (hey look! weaponized glue in a bag!).

I've never seen Tanglefoot bags used where the result wasn't ridiculous and cheesy... this from a self-proclaimed powergamer.

 

[Darklone]

I never had a PC without alcohol quickdrawable. Fine, it's not universal solvent, but close.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

... they are just to readilly available and cheap as is (and you get a lot of money later)

Do you not play with a DM? That's who determines how readily available something is. If the PCs try to show up with 10 tanglefoot bags, the DM just needs to say, "Sorry, the store only had three available." Or two, or one, or none!

Problem solved.