D&D 5E Should martial characters be mundane or supernatural?

[Micah Sweet]

It's also amazing mental feats. When a person is in a tight spot....your mind can slow down your perception of time....somehow. But this is very real.

And there are people that can block a bullet shot at them out of the air with a sword. Somehow they can detect the bullet, see the bullet, slow down time.....and move fast enough to block.

And that is only a little less amazing that there are people like shooters who can draw, aim and shoot and hit a moving target....faster then the human eye can see. You only see them putting their gun back in their holster....

People can sense things right before they happen...and sure science would tell you that.....somehow...your detecting a sign. Like your body feels the 'tiny' heat increase, air movement or something before a campfire explodes.

And the above does not even get into the real....strange stuff:

Like around half of all people "somehow" know if someone is watching them....and even more so "somehow" can find the person at look right at them. Somehow many people can feel when they are looked at.....there is really no explanation, but it happens far too much not to be something.

Then model that stuff.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That's because it means different things to different people. For me, a mundane character is one that goes from zero to hero. By higher levels, they can do things approaching captain America.

for others, it's much tighter with no superpowers other than extreme staying power and combat functionality (hp and damage). The high level stuff doesn't mean jumping over mountains, but obtaining castles, and leading armies. Much more AD&D 1e in that respect.

That would be my preference, but I'm cool with other schools of thought.

 

[Micah Sweet]

A gargantuan dragon doesn't lose the ability to fly or belch fire just because it's in an anti-magic zone. However, at least by the standards of the real world, those things certainly seem magical.

I would be very much in support of all martials becoming increasingly more supernatural as they level, in a similar sense to dragons. Magical by the standards of the real world, but an accepted "that's just the way it works" element of the fantasy setting.

I would be fine with that in a game if they told us so. But I also really like the idea of anti-magic literally shutting off stuff like dragons and other supernatural creatures. Take the idea seriously as a worldbuilding tool.

 

[Oofta]

That's where I disagree.
The shield is magical. It's a +X magical throwing shield.
However it returns because of Captain America because he trained with it and has the combat knowledge to make it ricochet and/or return.

But the question doesn't care about that aspect.
The question is:

"Are DMs mandated to give mundane characters rare or better magic items that complete their archetype?"​

The answer to that question, helps answer the OP question.

Captain America would still be Captain America without his shield. A high level fighter is still a high level fighter without magic items, although at the highest level I assume most PCs will have magic items. I fail to see why you're so hung up on his shield, in the MCU version Sam Wilson is able to pick up the shield and use it after a quick montage. Yes, he had to "attune" to it, but that would be true in D&D.

I honestly don't know what you're getting at with any of this.

 

[Micah Sweet]

High level 1e named fighters had weapons and armor only they could wear.

That's my point about it being annoying

A high level mundane as D&D describes would either require bringing back unfun rules OR giving them action movie turns that last 10-20 minutes to resolve.

Edit:
I mean go on YouTube and look up a fight scene from a major action movie character. Then realize what their actions would translate into D&D mechanics and turns. Then realize how many rolls that would be. Then realize because of the way D&D works they can do that every single turn.

What "unfun" rules are you referencing? I'm curious how you were able to objectively determine what rules are unfun for everyone.

 

[Oofta]

That is a good question. My answer would be ’no’, I don’t like characters being item dependent that way. I’d rather have a shield-throwing feat or some such to represent a character similar to Captain America. But if the answer is ’yes’ then that should actually be baked in the rules.

If it were a shield throwing ability though, he could pick up a trash can lid, throw it and have it return. He doesn't. As I just stated, Sam Wilson is also able to easily learn how to throw the shield and have it return. It's a magic, potentially legendary shield. Which is exactly what legendary items are supposed to be, iconic magical items that help define the character.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Neither. They should begin at Olympic athlete level, proceed past that to world-record-athlete level, and eventually reach transmundane status, where their methods are or should be mundane (at least IRL), yet they achieve results that go beyond the confines of mundanity.

The blacksmith who becomes so skilled, he smiths magic weapons with nothing more than knowledge, grit, technique, and material selection. This is a transmundane character.

A thief who begins by stealing the contents of nobles' pockets, grows to steal the weapons off the belts of devils, and ends by stealing the color of a fair maiden's eyes or his rival's shadow. Initially, it is simply a growth of purely physical, demonstrable skill. But in a fantastical world, where the thin skein of reality is more porous than our own, superlative skill transcends the limits of mere physical action, leaving us able to say what was done, but forced to admit we know not how.

And if players prefer not to have characters that reach such transcendental heights? Don't play epic level. Most players don't play epic anyway, or so I've been told!

 

[Micah Sweet]

Which would be fine if Joe the human wizard was just doing the equivalent of card tricks and pulling rabbits out of a hat.

On the other hand, if Joe can cast Wish or True Polymorph, then Bob needs something to be able to stand on same field. He can't simply be Bob the better-than-average mall cop.

To be fair, Bob has never been able to do those things in 50 years of D&D, so I hardly think he needs to equal them.

 

[Scribe]

"Are DMs mandated to give mundane characters rare or better magic items that complete their archetype?"

Yes, it should be assumed that mundane characters have access via Crafting, Purchasing, or other Class Functions, to Magic Items as they rise through the tiers of play.

Between that, and how they treated Feats, I really cannot comprehend what the designers were thinking on release of 5e.

 

[Micah Sweet]

With all of the martials complaining, I'm wondering if at some point in some world all the magic items makers would ever just decide to crank out more armors and weapons.

They do, in TSR editions.