D&D 5E Should martial characters be mundane or supernatural?

[Micah Sweet]

Well, sort of. But the explanation can simply be that you learned them. The wizard can learn the fireball spell, and the fighter can learn the boulder-shattering blade technique etc.

I don't agree. If you shatter boulders, there should be an explanation as to how, as no non-supernatural technique would allow a person to just do that without heavy construction equipment.

 

[Maxperson]

But nor James Bond, Spartacus or even Conan are even close to a 20th level D&D character.

Gygax once statted out Conan for 1e. Conan peaks at fighter 24/thief 12. Of course one might argue that 36 levels isn't close to a 20th level D&D character.

 

[Pedantic]

I don't agree. If you shatter boulders, there should be an explanation as to how, as no non-supernatural technique would allow a person to just do that without heavy construction equipment.

Yeah, the explanation being the sword technique mentioned a second ago. That's a spell with Sword, Footwork and Focus components, and hopefully the designer was innovative enough to use a different resource system than daily preparation.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yeah, the explanation being the sword technique mentioned a second ago. That's a spell with Sword, Footwork and Focus components, and hopefully the designer was innovative enough to use a different resource system than daily preparation.

If it's a spell, then fine. Not clear from the discourse that magic was involved.

 

[Minigiant]

It could. You'd have a subclass that provides supernatural capabilities, and another that gives you free items only usable by you. Not sure if that this would be a terribly good idea, but it could be done.

The magic items were not designed with any logic.
So technically it could be done but the results would not be great.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I don't agree. If you shatter boulders, there should be an explanation as to how, as no non-supernatural technique would allow a person to just do that without heavy construction equipment.

Then it is supernatural. So what? It is like wuxia, martial practitioners can learn to do stuff that people in real life cannot. A lot wuxia is actually set on Earth, yet people accept this conceit just fine. It should be even easier to accept happening in a distinct fantasy setting where people can just learn to teleport and cast fireballs too.

And if you think wuxia is culturally too distant reference for campaigns set in medievalish pseudo-Europe, then think about Beowolf. The guy swam for a week straight in armour, ripped off an arm of a giant monster with his are hands and beat it death with it, could carry a monster's head that took four men to lift, and killed a dragon with a dagger. He could do this because he was badass fighter. Yes, it a story, but I think stories about mythic heroes fighting monsters and dragons is far more sensible reference point for D&D than the real life.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Then it is supernatural. So what? It is like wuxia, martial practitioners can learn to do stuff that people in real life cannot. A lot wuxia is actually set on Earth, yet people accept this conceit just fine. It should be even easier to accept happening in a distinct fantasy setting where people can just learn to teleport and cast fireballs too.

And if you think wuxia is culturally too distant reference for campaigns set in medievalish pseudo-Europe, then think about Beowolf. The guy swam for a week straight in armour, ripped off an arm of a giant monster with his are hands and beat it death with it, could carry a monster's head that took four men to lift, and killed a dragon with a dagger. He could do this because he was badass fighter. Yes, it a story, but I think stories about mythic heroes fighting monsters and dragons is far more sensible reference point for D&D than the real life.

As I said, if you're doing supernatural things, I want an explanation in the book as to how. It can be general, it can be specific. I don't care.

 

[CreamCloud0]

But what does "extraordinary" mean? Since moving on from 3e, it's lost a game definition.

Well If I really had to put it into words, it’s stuff us regular real world people could do, but if you removed the limitations of the real world and of our bodies and tools, if you could just keep increasing your skill higher and higher.

Edit: I recall a scene in discworld-reaper man, where DEATH is making himself a new reaper’s scythe out of a plain old battered farmyard one, he starts sharpening it on whetstones and the like but he keeps using finer and finer materials to sharpen it until he’s using silk from a wedding dress, a spiderweb and finally the light of the breaking dawn to hone an edge to the blade that is not only sharp, but possesses the idea of sharpness that cuts past the physical edge of the blade, he wasn’t capable of doing that because he was DEATH but because he was really really good with handling scythes and had the knowledge and the skill.

 

[Maxperson]

Which would be fine if Joe the human wizard was just doing the equivalent of card tricks and pulling rabbits out of a hat.

On the other hand, if Joe can cast Wish or True Polymorph, then Bob needs something to be able to stand on same field. He can't simply be Bob the better-than-average mall cop.

Sure, but if he's chopping mountains in half with a sword stroke in order to match Wish, then he's engaging in a supernatural act. That is never going to be mundane. It's okay if he trained highly through mundane means and transcended, but he did transcend into the supernatural.

 

[Corinnguard]

It would but isn't.

But that's the core of this discussion,

Some think the martials should be mundanes with magic items.
Some think the martials should be supernatural without magic items.

A class cannot be designed to be both.

If there was a single class called the Martial class, you would most certainly be right. Such a class could not be designed to be both mundane or supernatural with or without magic items. The word, however, is an umbrella term that covers classes such as the Barbarian, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger and Rogue. With the exception of the Fighter and the Rogue, most of these classes have something supernatural. A Barbarian can pull off something supernatural whenever they rage. A Monk can use Ki to do something supernatural. The Ranger and the Paladin can tap into the primal or the divine to cast spells. The Fighter and the Rogue are mundane, but they can push themselves to the best they can be through training and skill. So some martial classes can be one or the other.

The OP's question could have been a little more specific.
Is a Barbarian, mundane or supernatural?
Is a Fighter, mundane or supernatural?
etc.