D&D 5E Should martial characters be mundane or supernatural?

[Minigiant]

Why do you want the OP's question to involve magic items? Why can't it be about class abilities?

Because when someone says it shouldn't be a class feature says it should be a magic item a fighter has

How? Because no one is saying they're required to have magic weapons. If other people in the group have magic weapons, of course the fighter should have them as well.

But no one is saying a mundane warrior and mundane thief should be able to defeat the monsters of the MM without magic items.

Everyone says that the magic items aren't required but then creates a world with a magic items that could required.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I mean, Mearls said magic items wouldn't be assumed, and people have largely stopped quoting him on it.

 

[bloodtide]

Magic items are one way to overcome mundane-ness. Class abilities are another way.

Another is Quality items. How about have mundane items that give things..."just like magic items". Bracers of Defense that give a +3 Quality bonus to Armor Class, for example.

Way back in 3E and d20, there were two nice mundane bonus types: Equipment and Alchemical. Both would work fine for a mundane bonus.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I think there is rather big difference between the assumption that the characters will at some point have access to some generic magic items and the assumption that the character has some bespoke magic items as required part of their "build."

When I say I don't want magic items to be "necessary" I mean I don't want the latter whilst still being fine with the former.

 

[Oofta]

...
But no one is saying a mundane warrior and mundane thief should be able to defeat the monsters of the MM without magic items.

Everyone says that the magic items aren't required but then creates a world with a magic items that could required.

Really? Who is saying that? Because I haven't said it. I don't remember anyone on this thread or any other stating that. There are some monsters that are immune to non-magical attacks which, in my opinion is a poor design decision and should have been resistance instead. Other than that I don't remember anyone anywhere saying a fighter is ineffective or unable to kill monsters without magic.

 

[Maxperson]

But no one is saying a mundane warrior and mundane thief should be able to defeat the monsters of the MM without magic items.

They not only should be able to do so, they currently can do so. Magic items aren't assumed in 5e and I can't think of a single monster that can't be taken down without magic items.

5e is designed this way intentionally.

Everyone says that the magic items aren't required but then creates a world with a magic items that could required.

They'd have to homebrew a lot of monsters to create such a world.

 

[Maxperson]

I mean, Mearls said magic items wouldn't be assumed, and people have largely stopped quoting him on it.

They aren't assumed.

 

[Minigiant]

Really? Who is saying that? Because I haven't said it. I don't remember anyone on this thread or any other stating that. There are some monsters that are immune to non-magical attacks which, in my opinion is a poor design decision and should have been resistance instead. Other than that I don't remember anyone anywhere saying a fighter is ineffective or unable to kill monsters without magic.

I didn't say a fighter is ineffective or unable to kill monsters without magic.

I said everyone in this thread is assuming a mundane fighter with assumed magic items or a supernatural fighter whose ownership of magic items is not assumed.

unless I missed someone

 

[Oofta]

I didn't say a fighter is ineffective or unable to kill monsters without magic.

I said everyone in this thread is assuming a mundane fighter with assumed magic items or a supernatural fighter whose ownership of magic items is not assumed.

unless I missed someone

I, and presumably everyone else, is assuming that all PCs have at least magic items at higher levels. So? That has nothing to do with the conversation.

 

[Minigiant]

I mean, Mearls said magic items wouldn't be assumed, and people have largely stopped quoting him on it.

Magic items aren't assumed.

But practically no one is running level 16+ martials without either magic items OR supernatural class features.

Are they anyone not using either magic items or supernatural class features up to level 20?
Anyone?