Should players know minions are minions from a rules/tactics PoV?
Jasperak
Adventurer
Here is a link to the thread I started last week on just this subject.
Judicious use and description of Minions
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=234300
Judicious use and description of Minions
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=234300
Mithreinmaethor
First Post
I just describe what each monster is wearing and carrying. They can find out what they are when they attack them etc.
vic20
Fool
vigormortis
First Post
i had a friend once crit a zombie and decided the brutes were actually minions. So maybe keeping moments like that hush can be fun (except for the meleeing wizard that is).
The goal of minions is to be a minor threat that can be quickly overcome. At level 1 a kobold minion at +5 attack, 4 damage is significant. At level 8, would a dragon shield's +6 attack, 1d6+3 be much of a threat at all? At 36 HP, the dragon shield wouldn't go down that quick, but it wouldn't hurt the PCs much at all, it's just back to slug-fest.
I don't think monsters significantly outside the PC's level is a good idea.
Majushi
First Post
as a player I would prefer not to be told at start of combat, and have to figure it out for myself.
Leads for a more cautious approach to most battles.
After a round or so it becomes obvious if they are minions or not and tactics change to accomodate that.
Good descriptions can aid in this, as some have mentioned above.
Player's should not be all-knowing when it comes to what is about to eat them...
Leads for a more cautious approach to most battles.
After a round or so it becomes obvious if they are minions or not and tactics change to accomodate that.
Good descriptions can aid in this, as some have mentioned above.
Player's should not be all-knowing when it comes to what is about to eat them...
amysrevenge
First Post
The answer very much depends on your individual style.
When I DM, there are two very separate games going on.
1) Outside of combat - roleplaying, immersion, etc.
2) In combat - miniatures wargame, minimal roleplaying, talking in metagame terms, etc.
I would always describe monsters with their MM names/types, and only surprise them with stuff that is "supposed" to be a surprise (like threatening reach or minions specifically/deliberately identical to brutes, or whatever).
Frankly, when you always tell them everything, that one time you don't tell them everything makes it all the more fun >
When I DM, there are two very separate games going on.
1) Outside of combat - roleplaying, immersion, etc.
2) In combat - miniatures wargame, minimal roleplaying, talking in metagame terms, etc.
I would always describe monsters with their MM names/types, and only surprise them with stuff that is "supposed" to be a surprise (like threatening reach or minions specifically/deliberately identical to brutes, or whatever).
Frankly, when you always tell them everything, that one time you don't tell them everything makes it all the more fun >
Doctor Futurity
Hero
I actually use passive Insight for this determination (unless someone calls for an active insight check to spot whether the foes ahead look like seasoned vets or nameless rabble.)
Basically, if the insight score is good enough (usually DC 10+level of the minions, I figure) then I might see fit to mention that the mob of (kobolds, orcs, whatever) up ahead look like a bunch of raw recruits, basic soldiers, a nameless rabble, whatever works to equate "minion" in terms of what the PCs are facing.
But as a DM, I prefer not to just state outright; it's gotta have an in-game reason, and some insight. In fact, one of the more entertaining recent encounters I ran was when the PCs, used to facing decrepit skeletons, ran up against 6 regular skeletons and a level 4 wight; they assumed it was a bunch of minions and one "important guy" and were alarmed when the skeletons not only didn't drop at the area attacks the wizard unleashed, but surround and started beating the snot out of the fighter. Good times! That kept them on their toes, afterwards....never just assume minions are on the board without good reason....heh heh!
Basically, if the insight score is good enough (usually DC 10+level of the minions, I figure) then I might see fit to mention that the mob of (kobolds, orcs, whatever) up ahead look like a bunch of raw recruits, basic soldiers, a nameless rabble, whatever works to equate "minion" in terms of what the PCs are facing.
But as a DM, I prefer not to just state outright; it's gotta have an in-game reason, and some insight. In fact, one of the more entertaining recent encounters I ran was when the PCs, used to facing decrepit skeletons, ran up against 6 regular skeletons and a level 4 wight; they assumed it was a bunch of minions and one "important guy" and were alarmed when the skeletons not only didn't drop at the area attacks the wizard unleashed, but surround and started beating the snot out of the fighter. Good times! That kept them on their toes, afterwards....never just assume minions are on the board without good reason....heh heh!
I think giving away minion defining clues with descriptions (without a skill check, just as part of a description) is kind of dumb. One might as well just flat out tell the players that the NPCs are minions if one is going to hint about it.
Personally as a player, I don't want to know unless I make a skill check. To me, that's what skill checks are for. If I see 8 creatures coming at me and don't know what they are, I should have no clue that some will fall in a single attack and others require a lengthier combat.
I don't quite understand the desire to spoon feed combat information to the players. Part of the joy of combat, at least for me, is to play it out and find out during combat what happens. Always knowing which NPCs are minions is like using cheat codes in a computer game. Some people enjoy doing that too.
Personally as a player, I don't want to know unless I make a skill check. To me, that's what skill checks are for. If I see 8 creatures coming at me and don't know what they are, I should have no clue that some will fall in a single attack and others require a lengthier combat.
I don't quite understand the desire to spoon feed combat information to the players. Part of the joy of combat, at least for me, is to play it out and find out during combat what happens. Always knowing which NPCs are minions is like using cheat codes in a computer game. Some people enjoy doing that too.
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