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Should prestige classes be better than base classes?
- Thread starter Terath Ninir
- Start date
Psion said it.
If the Prestige class is overall better than a base class, then there's little point to having a base class at all, and vice versa. So, there must be a give and take in the design of the PrC - it must be better in its own way, but you have to give up something for that.
If the Prestige class is overall better than a base class, then there's little point to having a base class at all, and vice versa. So, there must be a give and take in the design of the PrC - it must be better in its own way, but you have to give up something for that.
Choranzanus
Explorer
Equal.
But with so many of them published it is probably unavoidable that some of them are more powerful than base classes or that characters will go prestige, thus reducing importance of base classes. Due to this reasons they should perhaps be abolished or something should be done with them.
Also, prestige classes are already more powerful, because they do not follow normal multiclass rules.
But with so many of them published it is probably unavoidable that some of them are more powerful than base classes or that characters will go prestige, thus reducing importance of base classes. Due to this reasons they should perhaps be abolished or something should be done with them.
Also, prestige classes are already more powerful, because they do not follow normal multiclass rules.
I love the idea of PrCs, and think that in the field of specialization and flavor areas they should excel. Many, way to many of the PrC designed for 3.5 are bland in their mechanics and do not offer commiserate abilities. PrC design for 3.0 was even worse.
Hunter of the Dead is a perfect example. It is a good solid idea, with some interesting powers, but too many dead levels. There should be no dead levels in a PrC. If a 10 level class has 4 or 5 dead levels it should be a 5 level class.
There is a reason why people gravitate to the same PrCs over and over again, because so many of the other ones just are not worth it.
Hunter of the Dead is a perfect example. It is a good solid idea, with some interesting powers, but too many dead levels. There should be no dead levels in a PrC. If a 10 level class has 4 or 5 dead levels it should be a 5 level class.
There is a reason why people gravitate to the same PrCs over and over again, because so many of the other ones just are not worth it.
Will
First Post
I think 'other' isn't the proper answer for 'different and more specialized but just as powerful overall.' Because... um, that's what 'no' means.
My view? A level should be a level should be a level should be a level -- at least that should be the overriding goal. Otherwise, what the heck is the point? (Of course, this is also why I dislike NPC classes)
There should always be a reason to stick with a base class, even if it is less 'sexy' and more generalized than some prestige offering. There is power in generalizing; look at wizard specialists; some people love it, many people don't go for it, because the benefits of a wizard's breadth of spells is so valuable compared to the extra oomph provided. That, I think, is the right balance.
Then there's that high priest of Pelor or whatever it is. The one that does everything a cleric does, but more? That's absurd, and will never appear in my games...
My view? A level should be a level should be a level should be a level -- at least that should be the overriding goal. Otherwise, what the heck is the point? (Of course, this is also why I dislike NPC classes)
There should always be a reason to stick with a base class, even if it is less 'sexy' and more generalized than some prestige offering. There is power in generalizing; look at wizard specialists; some people love it, many people don't go for it, because the benefits of a wizard's breadth of spells is so valuable compared to the extra oomph provided. That, I think, is the right balance.
Then there's that high priest of Pelor or whatever it is. The one that does everything a cleric does, but more? That's absurd, and will never appear in my games...
Patryn of Elvenshae
First Post
No, they shouldn't be "better."
Yes, they should be more focused.
Yes, they should be more focused.
Celebrim
Legend
I've been saying for about 5 years now that they should be dropped completely, that they are the worst design decision in 3rd edition, that they never fulfilled the design goals Monte set for them and in fact do the opposite, that there is nothing that prestige classes do that couldn't be done better by a more robust feat tree (and possible making feats slightly more common), and that they have a net negative impact on the game. But, even though all of that is true, PrC's appeal to a fairly broad swathe of the customer base and always will, precisely because certain players find the idea of 'special power' and 'more poweful' exciting. Now that the genie is out of the bag, it can't easily be put back in and in practice never will be (much like critical hits and fighter weapon specialization, the best you can do is minimize the problems they create.)
The way to minimize the problems PrC's create is to mimimize the difference between a PrC and a base class until the attraction of a PrC begins to go away except when the PrC is fulfilling the original design goal of adding more flavor (rather than less as in practice they do now) to the process of character development.
If you don't think that PrC's should be balanced with base classes, then answer this question for me.
Suppose I'm a DM and I have two groups going through the same module in parallel. One group has stuck to base classes. The other group has loaded up on PrC's. Both groups defeat the same encounter. If PrC's are 'better' than base classes shouldn't I award less experience to the party with PrC's since the challenge of the encounter was effectively less for them than for the party using nothing but base classes? In other words, if PrC's are better than base classes, don't they effectively increase the character level of the party at some point, so that a party of 12th level characters using PrC's is as strong as a party not using PrC's that is 13th or even 14th level?
How do I handle that? How do I balance a module for play? Should I treat every 4 levels of a PrC as 5 levels of base class? Or what? How will we ensure that all the innumerable PrCs are balanced against each other, as they most obviously are not (as demonstrated by the fact that the same ones turn up over and over again)?
The way to minimize the problems PrC's create is to mimimize the difference between a PrC and a base class until the attraction of a PrC begins to go away except when the PrC is fulfilling the original design goal of adding more flavor (rather than less as in practice they do now) to the process of character development.
If you don't think that PrC's should be balanced with base classes, then answer this question for me.
Suppose I'm a DM and I have two groups going through the same module in parallel. One group has stuck to base classes. The other group has loaded up on PrC's. Both groups defeat the same encounter. If PrC's are 'better' than base classes shouldn't I award less experience to the party with PrC's since the challenge of the encounter was effectively less for them than for the party using nothing but base classes? In other words, if PrC's are better than base classes, don't they effectively increase the character level of the party at some point, so that a party of 12th level characters using PrC's is as strong as a party not using PrC's that is 13th or even 14th level?
How do I handle that? How do I balance a module for play? Should I treat every 4 levels of a PrC as 5 levels of base class? Or what? How will we ensure that all the innumerable PrCs are balanced against each other, as they most obviously are not (as demonstrated by the fact that the same ones turn up over and over again)?
I'm mixed on this as many PrCs such as mystic theurge allow you to advance significantly in power versus a pure multiclass approach. However without the multiclass boosting PrCs players who choose to multiclass are always going to be at a significant disadvantage vis a vis thier solo classed compatriots.
In contrast though there are plenty of PrCs that give significant benefits without much trade-off (Radiant Servant
) that I'm not sure are neccesarily good for the game. PrCs like that make the Cleric 20 feel inadequate in comparison to the Cleric 10/Radiant Servant 10 and I'm not sure that's good for game enjoyability.
In contrast though there are plenty of PrCs that give significant benefits without much trade-off (Radiant Servant
) that I'm not sure are neccesarily good for the game. PrCs like that make the Cleric 20 feel inadequate in comparison to the Cleric 10/Radiant Servant 10 and I'm not sure that's good for game enjoyability.
Angel Tarragon
Dawn Dragon
I think, for 4th Ed. PrC should be dropped. Instead, I'd like to see more themed replacement levels.
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