Should Ronin Arts Submit to Monte Cook's "Year's Best?"

[GMSkarka]

It seems kind of rude to accuse someone of acting unethically in this situation.

...which is probably why nobody has.

Easy there, camper. Put away the Righteous Moral Indignation (tm).

All I'm doing is pointing out that it's not a good deal, and suggesting ways that Monte could make it a good deal (I really do like the charity idea).

 

[Rasyr]

Fine--you want to reward the creators.

Then make it so that YOU'RE not seeing a profit on it, since you're not paying anyone.

Pledge, right here, to donate all income above costs of production and shipping to a charity. That way, Malhavoc isn't simply making sales from other people's unpaid work, you still get to reward the creators, and you get to do something nice for a charity that most likely needs all the help it can get.

That is a great idea, GMS! A really excellent idea!

 

[DaveMage]

So you're saying that Monte/Malhavoc shouldn't be compensated for spending all the time reading, evaluating, and editing the submissions?

Right.....



If the book is published through White Wolf, the exposure to those lucky enough to be selected may be worth far more than giving up PI of questionable long-term value. Methinks a little perspective is needed here...

 

[Davelozzi]

Has Malhavoc done this in previous years? This is the first I'd heard of it.

 

[Crothian]

Has Malhavoc done this in previous years? This is the first I'd heard of it.

Nope, this is the first year

 

[GMSkarka]

So you're saying that Monte/Malhavoc shouldn't be compensated for spending all the time reading, evaluating, and editing the submissions?

Reading and evaluating? No. He volunteered.

Editing? Excuse me---we're talking about previously published material. Ideally, there shouldn't be much editing to do. (Although, this IS the game industry...)

I'm sorry...what part of "Malhavoc gets to profit from selling other people's work without paying for it" do you not understand? How is that even remotely acceptable? If it was "eeeeevil WotC" suggesting it, rather than "Saint Monte", I doubt it would be taken so well.

If the book is published through White Wolf, the exposure to those lucky enough to be selected may be worth far more than giving up PI of questionable long-term value. Methinks a little perspective is needed here...

Your PI is part of your branding and definitely NOT of "questionable" value.

Never mind. I've said my bit. The benefits are nebulous and vague at best, and the negatives are there for anyone to see in black and white.

 

[DaveMage]

I'm sorry...what part of "Malhavoc gets to profit from selling other people's work without paying for it" do you not understand? How is that even remotely acceptable? If it was "eeeeevil WotC" suggesting it, rather than "Saint Monte", I doubt it would be taken so well.

There's this thing called the OGL where the situation you describe happens quite often...

 

[Berandor]

No, it's not standard.

But it does exist--and will for as long as there are authors naive enough to submit material for free.

Yeah, well, I don't know about the American market.

But in Germany, short fiction anthologies are mostly done on a "contest" level. The publisher might have one or two established authors in the book, but a lot of it is from submissions, enabling the publisher to also call it "prize-winning" fiction, because the stories won their publishment.

And that's what it is. The author takes from it a few copies, and of course the pblished story for his resume. But short stories, in Germany, are mostly seen as a way of getting into the business before writing books, not as a venture of its own. And they're compensated that way. Oh, and of course you're handing all rights over to the publisher.

Sadly, that's just the way it is. I don't like it very much, and I don't participate in these things a lot (mostly because I agree with you that I should be getting compensated). Still, that's the way it goes. And it's just as well, because these books have given me the chance to see my work evaluated by the general public, to have my name in print, to have a well-known publisher in my resume, and to feel good about having a story published.

I personally know a lot of fledgling authors who have published one or more stories even with very respectable publishers, and I only know one that ever got paid for it - and that was a two-page spread in a dime novel.

So, perhaps America is the land of dreams for authors. All I know is that Germany would be different, then.

On topic: I have picked up several PDF products from strong word of mouth alone; almost all of these were publishers I haven't even heard of before the ENNies of this or last year. So being able to publish in a product put out by a well-known publisher and endorsed by a well-known designer will - and I'm sure about that - increase public awareness for a small-time publisher. It will cause people (not all who buy the book, of course, but still a good portion of it) to take a look at the publisher and maybe even buy. I honestly think this book - and the seal you can put on your product - will be at least as helpful as one of the ads running above my head. Probably more helpful, as I don't even notice the ads anymore. And people are paying for the ads.

Yes, Monte gains PI. But only for this book. He can't include said PI in Arcana Genetically Enhanced, or a Book of Might.

The way I see it, it's like a free ad for small publishers, with very good chances of increased revenue as a result of it. If you're not gonna send something in, that's your choice. But if you have some really great product, then I will perhaps never know, because who can keep up with all d20 publishers and products and the way they appear and disappear at the moment?

Aside: I think ENPublishing should send in Tournaments, Fairs, & taverns and ask for a review of the alcohol rules. And the degree of success rules. Basically, chapter 1.

 

[Monte At Home]

That's interesting... do they use those submission fees to go towards some monetary award?

No, the winners do get a nice trophy, though. I assume the fee goes to pay the judges, the people handling all the submissions, and to pay for the cost of the book (and of course the trophies), but I can't actually speak for them.

No, that kind of money doesn't really make or break a publisher...however, as it stands you're also getting PI out of the deal. That's a whole 'nother ball of wax, and one in which getting even a nominal fee would make more sense.... Then make it so that YOU'RE not seeing a profit on it, since you're not paying anyone.

I think you're missing a pretty serious point. The main difference between this book and most others than use other people's OGC isn't payment, frankly, it's that we're asking first. Material gets reprinted and reused all the time in the d20 neck of the woods. You wouldn't, I hope, ask the same of Chris Pramas for Green Ronin's various collections of spells? Or Matt Sprang for Mongoose's collections of feats and prestige classes? Or anyone else who's used other people's work, like say, the SRD? (I certainly wouldn't.)

If PI is your sticking point, don't submit anything with PI. Or don't submit anything with PI that you feel is important not appear in this book. Or, treat me like a person, or at least a fellow professional, and send me an email that says "I'd really like you to consider some material from X, but I really don't want you to use the PI in that book. Can we work something out?"

It's not my intention to do anything with your material that you don't want done. That, I thought, would have been obvious from the fact that we're only only accepting submissions that people WANT to send.

Lastly, regarding PI, we're only getting non-exclusive one-time rights--to be perfectly honest, it's just to make things simpler to review. If that bothers you (or anyone else), don't participate. You wouldn't expect Spectrum to not actually print the paintings they're honoring in their annual collections. And, like us, they don't gain any more than that one-time use of the work.

Ultimately, we're putting out a book called "the Year's Best" as chosen by one of the system's creators. We're not hiding the author's names, we're celebrating them. We can't do that according to section 11 of the OGL without already jumping through some special hoops. So we can't just grab other people's OGC and be done with it, even if we wanted to. So we set things up like we did. We've giving out copies of the book and awards to those who are selected in lieu of nominal payment. If publishers want a chance to be a part of it, they can. If authors (who are not copyright holders) want to be a part of it, they should talk to their publishers.

If not, that's fine too.

We've already got some great publishers on board, so all selected material is sure to be in very good company.

 

[Tav_Behemoth]

Is that exposure worth signing over the rights to your Product Identity materials, with zero pay?

Only if you're either incredibly naive, or just don't understand what it is that you're doing.

Well, you're assuming that the year's best publishing in our field will include PI materials. Are you saying that the growing number of people who are releasing all or almost all of their work as open content are naive, or haven't understood what they're doing?

I'd be honored to have Behemoth3's work reprinted in a year's best anthology. We've already assigned any other publisher the right to reprint our materials without payment for whatever purpose they see fit using the Open Game License -- and created a limited license to allow them to use PI elements ("Behemoth3" and the titles of our books) to state where they got our open content from. Since Monte's asking, I'll submit a release form. But it's obvious to me that he's being more generous than he needs to be, and I appreciate that.

Re: Spectrum and why their protocols differ from other anthologies, I'll be up at David Hartwell and Kathryn Cramer's on Saturday for the New York Review of Science Fiction work weekend; since they edit Tor's Year's Best series, they're likely to have some insight why Spectrum (which is indeed a respected & professional anthology) handles it the way they do. I'll let y'all know what I learn!