D&D 4E Should Spell Resistance make it into 4e

[Klaus]

This counterspell version is too strong. That's the problem with counterspelling, its a very tricky mechanic to balance. You can swing between completely garbage and utterly overpowered in a heartbeat.

You think it's too strong? The character has to take a feat, spend the necessary slot(s) and give up his next action. The balancing factor would be the choice between casting a fireball or denying your opponent his fireball.

 

[Victim]

Strong counterspelling makes for weak (active) casters. That's why counterspelling is so weak. Look at that Improved Counterspelling feat. A 4th level sorcerer can block a 9th level spell. You might as well introduce automatic parries too, so melee characters can experience the joy total shut down by far weaker opponents too.

Counterspelling as a special mechanic should probably just be dropped completely and replaced with a few spells like Dampen Power, Energy Aegis, and a Dispel variation.

 

[NanocTheCivilized]

Lose Spell Resistance.

Keep Dispel Magic, but simplify the way it works. For example, make it work against spell level, not caster level. I'm also in favour of junking everything that depends on caster level or caster ability bonuses BTW - saves etc should depend upon spell level only IMO.

Keep Anti-Magic Field, but moderate it a bit. It should have no effect on always-on magic item effects, for example.

Cheers
Nanoc

 

[ashockney]

There's some great ideas on this thread.

My thoughts quickly:

Dispel Magic (debuff) - rolled up and simplified, be much more specific as to the effect, this will be helped greatly by reduicng the number and type of buffs allowed

Anti-magic shell - get it out of 6th level spells! I don't care if it stays or goes from there, but I'm generally not a huge fan of "absolutes".

Spell Resistance - must go: I'm a fan from previous editions, but having seen it in widespread use during 3rd edition, agree this can be dramatically simplified, same for concealment. The idea of there being "tiers" to the resistance that would provide somewhat "standard" bonuses to saves and evasion/mettle benefits is simply brilliant. Beautiful and simple.

Counterspelling - needs to be retooled: the idea here is a good one, but can be difficult to execute in game design. Nobody wants their "action" to be potentially ineffective, which can happen quite easily here. I think there should be stages of readiness/buff that can be moved up and down like the "conditions" in SWSE. Counterspelling should provide this kind of benefit, making it an "automatic" effect that makes it considerably more difficult for your opponent to succeed (ie, requires Concentration check DC10+spell level, vs. Concentration check DC15+spell level or DC20+spell level). I think this could essentially be parlayed into a nice mage duelling system as well.

 

[Klaus]

Strong counterspelling makes for weak (active) casters. That's why counterspelling is so weak. Look at that Improved Counterspelling feat. A 4th level sorcerer can block a 9th level spell. You might as well introduce automatic parries too, so melee characters can experience the joy total shut down by far weaker opponents too.

Counterspelling as a special mechanic should probably just be dropped completely and replaced with a few spells like Dampen Power, Energy Aegis, and a Dispel variation.

Taking a cue from ashockney (great idea!), what if counterspelling worked like this:

Counterspell (Feat) - A spellcaster with this feat may, as an immediate action, spend a spell slot of a level (equal to or higher than a spell being cast by an enemy) to unravel the enemy's spell. If he chooses to do so, he forfeits his next action. The spellcaster and his opponents must make opposed Concentration checks. If the casting character wins this opposed roll, the spell goes off as normal. If the counterspelling character wins, the spell fizzles with no effect. In either case, both characters spend the apropriate spell slots.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Taking a cue from ashockney (great idea!), what if counterspelling worked like this:

Counterspell (Feat) - A spellcaster with this feat may, as an immediate action, spend a spell slot of a level (equal to or higher than a spell being cast by an enemy) to unravel the enemy's spell. If he chooses to do so, he forfeits his next action. The spellcaster and his opponents must make opposed Concentration checks. If the casting character wins this opposed roll, the spell goes off as normal. If the counterspelling character wins, the spell fizzles with no effect. In either case, both characters spend the apropriate spell slots.

This is relatively fair and almost exactly identical to a caster with Reactive Counterspell using Dispel Magic to counter opponents' magic. I'd make it a caster level check and not a Concentration check--assuming the two Wizards have maxed out ranks in Concentration and the same Con, this would normally be equivalent but prevents cheesed-out +Concentration items and the like.

 

[Raduin711]

I agree for the most part.
Spell Resistance should turn into a bonus to saves against magic in some shape or form.
Antimagic shouldn't even be there. I always wondered... if you use a magical spell to create unmagic... how does that work?! I understand that perhaps in a specfic setting there could be naturally occuring null magic phenomenon which should do as you say: supress all magic.
And I think you should be able to dispell spells after they have been cast (obviously I'm speaking about non-instant spells in this case) using caster checks... almost like magical grapple checks between to magi. Which, I understand can already be done with the dispell spell, but should be accomplished by other means than blowing a spell. Such like the feat in Arcana Evolved that allows spell-casters to something like this.

Imagine everybody is in the bottom of a bathtub filled with water, and the water is the ambient magic. Your wizard has a spell that pulls the chain on the plug that keeps the water in the tub. Then, natural forces come into play... all the magic is drawn into the vortex (which was always there, it just needed to be opened) and thus creates an anti-magic field. Eventually the suction will pull the plug back into place, restoring order.

 

[Thurbane]

No, I think all of these are firmly part of D&D, and see no need to get rid of them in 4E.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

No, I think all of these are firmly part of D&D, and see no need to get rid of them in 4E.

Like THAC0?

 

[Blue]

I'm not a huge fan of SR mechanics, but I disagree that it could be rolled into saves. There are spells that have no saves for a reason, but still SR. Even more importantly, there as spells with no SR, but saves. Like conjuring something so it's really there (no chance of magic resistance stopping it - it's really there), but you can still dodge out of the way, etc.

I don't like the current mechanic, or that it's so works completely or doesn't work. I'd rather see SR like DR, that blocks part of the effects of a spell, but there are so many spells that do things that aren't straight damage I don't know how to quantify that.

Good luck,
=Blue(23)