D&D 4E Should Spell Resistance make it into 4e

[Nifft]

I'm not sure why spells should be worth less than other magical stuff, like a dragon's breath weapon. Since new PC classes now have a variety of Supernatural abilities, the differentiation seems even more arbitrary and unnecessary.

I'd rather just have spell effects vary by type (or sub-type) and give some types (like Dragon) a bevy of immunities or bonuses.

Cheers, -- N

 

[el-remmen]

While the mechanic could be better, I just must not use many creatures with spell resistance because it has never come up enough to be a pain.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I agree. SR for demons and devils and the like I can understand. SR for drow I can't wrap my head around. Granted it used to be that way, but whats the rationale? There are WAAAAY too many monster with SR that it kinda makes most spellcasting against high-level monsters pointless unless your caster is totally tricked out to both get past saves (increase DC feats) AND get past SR (increase those rolls).

The fact wizards get so few feats combined with the fact you have to spend 4-5 feats to get good at those rolls means you either pigeonhole every caster into taking the same feats to be relevant in later levels or you doom the caster to being outclassed in later levels by everyone that DOESN'T have to spend an extra 2-3 feats to be able to harm most high-level monsters.

I say replace SR with special defences along these lines...

Light Magic Resistance: +4 bonus to saves against spells and spell like abilities.
Moderate Magic Resistance: +8 bonus to saves against spells and spell like abilities.
Heavy Magic Resistance: +12 bonus to saves against spells and spell like abilities.
Epic Magic Resistance: +20 bonus to saves against spells and spell like abilities.

Combine that with liberal use of the evasion-like abilities for the other two save types and yo have a winner that frees up the wizards to diversify a bit.

DS

That's an interesting idea, but there's a few kinks in it. First, SR is either massively more or less useful depending on whether or not you are already good at the save.

For instance, if the SR monster can't save except on a 20 (but barely makes it on that 20) and then gets Moderate SR, she can now save on a 12, which means that you've not quite cut the chance of success for the Wizard in half. But let's say you needed a 10 to succeed. Now you need a 2 to succeed, and you cut down the Wizard's success chance by a factor of 9.

The second problem is related--a Wizard who cheeses out save DCs (which they are likely to be doing already anyway if all spells are now on a save mechanic) can sometimes totally ignore the SR if the SR isn't enough to bring the chance to save above 5%.

 

[WayneLigon]

Maybe dispel magic should be a skill or a feat. After you ID the spell with Spellcraft, and know its level, you just burn one of your slots or spells of the same level to remove the effect.

I like the idea of it being some sort of inate ability of a mage, along with being able to detect and manipulate the very force of magic. I'd like to see Dispelling, Countering and Suppressing magic all be part and parcel of being a mage, along with some kind of sorcerous dueling rules. Ever since reading about the Duel Arcane in the first Deryni books, I've really wanted a means for D&D wizards to channel magical power in some way that directly fighting and defending with it became possible.

 

[hong]

D&D basically needs a better way of handling instakill attacks. SR gives two rolls to counter something like finger of death or destruction, which is better than one. However it's still an all-or-nothing mechanic: either SR (and save) fails and the creature dies, or SR (or save) works and it survives. Turning SR into a generic save bonus won't change this. Something like an action point/hero point system would be good in this regard.

 

[Ry]

Fold SR into the saves, I say. Stop slowing down my game in the name of representing the mechanics of magic realistically. That's just dumb.

 

[S'mon]

Spell Resistance began as Magic Resistance, basically a way to keep Fighters viable as PCs vs Magic-Users at high level. M-Us could deal out far more damage vs most foes, but if a Golem or Demon turned up, they'd turn to the trusty Fighter.
It makes less sense in 3e where you have far fewer combats in a session, each takes far longer, and the assumption is that every PC should be doing something fun in every combat round. SR totals are far lower than in 1e (compare 1e drow to 3e drow - a 1e 2nd level drow had 54% MR vs 11th level M-U, equivalent to ca SR 22).

 

[Gentlegamer]

For those advocating rolling SR into a save bonus, remember that some effects are save for half damage (or lesser effect). Spell Resistance is supposed to represent the ability to completely ignore magical effects.

 

[Sammael]

For those advocating rolling SR into a save bonus, remember that some effects are save for half damage (or lesser effect). Spell Resistance is supposed to represent the ability to completely ignore magical effects.

I already suggested that a creature with SR that makes its save should never suffer any negative effects (sort of like evasion + mettle rolled up together).

 

[Ry]

I already suggested that a creature with SR that makes its save should never suffer any negative effects (sort of like evasion + mettle rolled up together).

Yeah, that's what I mean by "roll it into saves" - not "add a static bonus" just "make mechanics such that you just have one simple roll to determine whether the subject is affected by the spell or not."