D&D 4E Should terrain be move vulnerable to damage in 4E?

[frankthedm]

Overall, it seems like in 3e, most creatures, save the frenzied berserker, with his 4 for 1 power attack, won't cause very much collateral damage unless they spend a good chunk of time trying to do so. Other than Earthquake, most spell effects one would imagine could actually wreck at least a thin wall, honestly do very little since they get their damage cut in half and then have hardness applied. I'm not trying to say the numbers are 'unrealistic'*, far from it, but those huge amounts of HP mean that even at high levels, it is very hard to impact the terrain meaningfully. Hell, even if the DM rules that the breath weapon of a great worm red dragon does full damage to a tree, there is still a very good chance the tree will still be standing. :\

It also means that there has to be a huge disconnect between the HP of a normal pillar and the "combat zone's" break-for-effect pillar for it to be worthwhile to spend the actions to break said pillar. Trying to break even a slender pillar just is not worth it; hardness 8 and 150 HP is a lot to hack through, so in 3e, unless the dm makes it very evident the special pillar is a lot easier to break, it does not matter WHAT when effect is, if the foe can be hurt, triggering the effect is a waste of time.

Maybe I have watched too much DBZ, but at higher levels, I LIKE the idea the battlefield being ruined by the combatants with hills and mountains being torn apart like styrofoam.

*However, those huge HP amounts, if directly transfered to a modern setting, necessitate modern explosives doing 100's of damage to be congruent with their descutive power IRL

 

[Sir Brennen]

It's entirely possible that with the increased focus on terrain in combat, like Iron Heroes zones, that rules for damage to the surrounding area (and more importantly, the consequences for doing so) might get a bit more attention in 4E.

 

[Victim]

I agree that terrain is very hard to destroy conventionally. Power Attack plus full attacking can do a number on a wall or something, given a few rounds, but on a per action basis stuff can be really tough. Especially with damage dealing spells.

 

[Aloïsius]

It's entirely possible that with the increased focus on terrain in combat, like Iron Heroes zones, that rules for damage to the surrounding area (and more importantly, the consequences for doing so) might get a bit more attention in 4E.

I think not. If the PC are able to destroy the wall, it will rob the DM of his power to nose-lead them through the tunnels and corridors of the Dungeon. So, no sunder, no breakable wall. Look for the red key to open the red door, then, look for the blue key.

* the above post is an exorcism*

 

[Imp]

Man, I wouldn't want to be a D&D lumberjack.

 

[Xethreau]

Incredibly high level fights that take place in the mortal world SHOULD change the scenery, possibly forever.

FF10, the Calm Lands, anyone?
(A place where Summoners frequently fought Sin, and the epic battles left nothing behind but a fast plane.)

 

[marune]

I think not. If the PC are able to destroy the wall, it will rob the DM of his power to nose-lead them through the tunnels and corridors of the Dungeon. So, no sunder, no breakable wall. Look for the red key to open the red door, then, look for the blue key.

There is no such thing like a 2-way dilemna between "destroying walls and do whatever we want" and "plot-coupon collection".

Sadly, this myth is strong and D&D is not the RPG that gives the best tools to destroy it.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I think not. If the PC are able to destroy the wall, it will rob the DM of his power to nose-lead them through the tunnels and corridors of the Dungeon. So, no sunder, no breakable wall. Look for the red key to open the red door, then, look for the blue key.

* the above post is an exorcism*

Let's hope it works. Maybe it already did, as some of the WotC posts or articles indicate that encounters can now span multiple rooms - maybe some only do this because a monster or PC decides to add an improvised door?

Would also help playing an asian-inspired campaign - all those paper walls...

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Id like to see things crashing through walls more often. In our Oathbound game most walls are made of a low hardness plaster to encourage this sort of behavior! Theres a certain satisfaction to bullrushing someone through a 4th floor wall and pummeling them all the way down.

 

[Merlin the Tuna]

Trying to break even a slender pillar just is not worth it; hardness 8 and 150 HP is a lot to hack through,

Wait a minute. Say it's a 2ft by 2ft pillar -- 4 square feet. The HP values are for a 10ft by 10 ft section -- 100 square feet. So we've got one twenty-fifth of the described amount, giving us 250/25 = 10 HP. Is this just a case of giving us a totally unhelpful standard measurement in the table?